If by "change in behavior" you mean that it would allow a way to avoid the infinite loop condition, I agree.
If by "change in behavior" you mean some other sort of API change, I disagree. But I guess I will have to wait and see if I can this new "finalize_jqtide_" API mechanism into something that allows a way of avoiding that infinite loop condition. And then I guess I will also need to think about if this can in turn be made into something that can be helpful to other people beside myself. Thanks, -- Raul On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 7:16 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree your proposal can be useful for developers, but it also > introduce a change in behavior that has been there for many > years. The next qt will add the following line > > finalize_jqtide_^:(3=(4!:0)@<) 'finalize_jqtide_' > > so that a user can customize or override wdhandler or any other > functions and can survive addon updates. > > Вс, 22 май 2016, Raul Miller написал(а): >> I think that avoiding coping measures on the grounds that at some >> future point in time a proper fix should be done is wrong. >> >> The right time for avoiding those coping measures is when that proper >> fix is available. >> >> If the issue is motivation, you need that anyways - but having a >> system which can be used in the mean time is important for motivation. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Raul >> >> >> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 1:02 PM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Infinite loop is bug, but replacing ok box with interrupt button >> > is not a proper fix to the gl paint problem. So far gl paint is >> > the only case that results in an infinite loop, so that I would >> > prefer a proper fix to the gl paint problem itself. >> > >> > I suspect it is a deficiency of Qt graphic backend, since popup >> > box is at the top of z-order, the presence or absence of popup box >> > should not interfere the other windows. >> > >> > Вс, 22 май 2016, Jan-Pieter Jacobs написал(а): >> >> I also happened to run into the infinite popup problem, both when trying >> >> to >> >> get started writing J GUI's (gave up because of this) and when using plot >> >> (accidentally not specifying options in the way they should be). >> >> >> >> I agree that in that last case, it was probably a bug in the plot package, >> >> but in my opinion, the user or developper should never irrevokably loose >> >> control over the environment under whatever circumstance, also not when >> >> it's due to his own ignorance, or a bug in a package he's using. Certainly >> >> not when trying to promote J as the ideal tool for interactive >> >> experimentation. >> >> >> >> If all experimentation should be stored in scripts, how is the workflow >> >> still so different from that of compiling languages? >> >> >> >> So I would be a huge fan of a feature like an interrupt button for >> >> repeating popups, or making jbreak cleanly interrupt this kind of endless >> >> loops. >> >> >> >> Just my two cents. >> >> >> >> Jan-Pieter >> >> On May 20, 2016 12:41 PM, "Raul Miller" <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Has this been a big problem, for you? For anyone? >> >> > >> >> > The problem of being a J programmer and losing control of the system >> >> > is an immediate problem, and I think it's a bigger problem. >> >> > >> >> > Also, for those hypothetical end users who might be "confused" by an >> >> > option, it would be possible to "remove choices on their behalf" if >> >> > that were actually important. (That might be somewhat arrogant, >> >> > though, since this "removal" does not seem to improve anything for >> >> > them.) >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Raul >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:48 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > IMO errors reported in wdhandler reflect there are some >> >> > > programming bugs or unexpected behavior. If it occurs in >> >> > > production systems then end users who have no J knowledge should >> >> > > whatsapp the screen shot to the developer. Providing more choices >> >> > > will confuse end users further. >> >> > > >> >> > > Пт, 20 май 2016, Raul Miller написал(а): >> >> > >> I am seeing some odd things here. One of which is that the previous >> >> > >> documentation for wdquery -- >> >> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/user/script_winlib.htm#wdquery >> >> > >> -- seems to no longer be valid. Another is that I can not find >> >> > >> documentation for wdquery for the current release. (And I am seeing >> >> > >> other oddities in behavior, but I am going to stop trying to >> >> > >> enumerate >> >> > >> those oddities with those two observations.) >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Anyways, perhaps wdhandler should be changed, replacing >> >> > >> >> >> > >> wdinfo 'wdhandler';'error in: ',wd_fn,wd_err >> >> > >> >> >> > >> with something like >> >> > >> >> >> > >> if. 0~:wdquery 'wdhandler';'error in: >> >> > ',wd_fn,wd_err,LF,'continue?' do. >> >> > >> echo 'DISABLED_',wd_fn >> >> > >> ('DISABLED_',wd_fn)=: (5!:1<wd_fn)5!:0 >> >> > >> erase wd_fn >> >> > >> end. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> (but, beware email induced line wrap) >> >> > >> >> >> > >> In other words: >> >> > >> >> >> > >> [1] Give the user the opportunity to continue. Depending on details >> >> > >> of >> >> > >> other parts of the system, this may or may not result in further >> >> > >> problems. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> [2] If the user opts not to continue, set aside the definition of the >> >> > >> current event handler (which failed) and disable it. (Hypothetically >> >> > >> speaking, we might be able to skip the setting aside part, because >> >> > >> the >> >> > >> definition should be in a script. However, in some cases it might not >> >> > >> be.) >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Thoughts? >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Thanks, >> >> > >> >> >> > >> -- >> >> > >> Raul >> >> > >> >> >> > >> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:59 PM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> >> >> > >> wrote: >> >> > >> > I checked agin, it is the local noun wd_fn inside wdhandler. >> >> > >> > so perhaps you can try >> >> > >> > ". wd_fn,'=:empty' >> >> > >> > or >> >> > >> > 4!:55 <wd_fn >> >> > >> > inside the catch block. >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > Пт, 20 май 2016, bill lam написал(а): >> >> > >> >> the first few rows of wdq (global set inside wdhander) should >> >> > provide that >> >> > >> >> info. see j user manual or jwiki for wd documentation. >> >> > >> >> On May 20, 2016 6:55 AM, "Raul Miller" <rauldmil...@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Is there a systematic way of determining which verb name is the >> >> > name >> >> > >> >> > of the currently running event handler? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Thanks, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > Raul >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:27 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > c++ jqt side did not know what had happened on the j engine so >> >> > it will >> >> > >> >> > keep >> >> > >> >> > > on calling J on paint. You need to make j paint verb a no-op >> >> > after the >> >> > >> >> > > first popup. >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > For debug suspension, you may want try catchd instead of >> >> > >> >> > > catch. >> >> > >> >> > suspension >> >> > >> >> > > in the presence of events is rather troublesome. IIRC all >> >> > >> >> > > events >> >> > except >> >> > >> >> > > paint are discarded during suspension, so that you may still >> >> > >> >> > > get >> >> > infinite >> >> > >> >> > > in suspension. >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > what I used to do is set >> >> > >> >> > > wdinfo_z_=: smoutput_z_ >> >> > >> >> > > in order to debug gl paint error. >> >> > >> >> > > On May 19, 2016 5:28 PM, "Raul Miller" <rauldmil...@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> So... maybe it would make sense to replace >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> wdinfo 'wdhandler';'error in: ',wd_fn,wd_err >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> in wdhandler with something like >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> if. -.wdquery 'wdhandler';'error in: >> >> > >> >> > >> ',wd_fn,wd_err,LF,'continue?' do.throw.end. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> ? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> Except... I tried that, and throw. was not sufficient to stop >> >> > the >> >> > >> >> > >> infinite condition with debugging disabled, and that line of >> >> > code >> >> > >> >> > >> never runs with debugging enabled. So there is something else >> >> > going >> >> > >> >> > >> on, also... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> Perhaps the best compromise for development purposes would >> >> > >> >> > >> be to >> >> > >> >> > >> disable the offending handler (erase the name) if the user >> >> > elects >> >> > >> >> > >> cancelling out of it? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> Thanks, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> >> > >> >> > >> Raul >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:36 PM, bill lam >> >> > >> >> > >> <bbill....@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> > the popup dialog box is raised by a try catch block in the >> >> > verb >> >> > >> >> > >> wdhandler, >> >> > >> >> > >> > since it does not throw an error after the popup, there is >> >> > >> >> > >> > no >> >> > >> >> > suspension. >> >> > >> >> > >> > the gl area partially hidden by the popup box is repainted >> >> > and since >> >> > >> >> > the >> >> > >> >> > >> gl >> >> > >> >> > >> > paint or any other jqt events has no knowledge that there >> >> > >> >> > >> > has >> >> > been an >> >> > >> >> > >> error >> >> > >> >> > >> > in j wdhander being caught so there is an infinite loop. >> >> > >> >> > >> > You >> >> > may add >> >> > >> >> > >> some >> >> > >> >> > >> > codes in the j paint verb to detect that error condition. >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > this had been reported but fixing it is a low priority. >> >> > >> >> > >> > On May 19, 2016 5:09 AM, "Raul Miller" >> >> > >> >> > >> > <rauldmil...@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Currently, if I am using the gl commands for an isigraph >> >> > control, and >> >> > >> >> > >> >> there's an error, I get behavior which I do not >> >> > >> >> > >> >> understand. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> (1) I get a popup telling me that there was an error (and >> >> > giving me >> >> > >> >> > >> >> the details of the error. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> (2) I only have an "OK" option on that popup. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> (3) When I click "OK", execution resumes as if there were >> >> > >> >> > >> >> no >> >> > error >> >> > >> >> > >> >> (presumably on the line following the line with the error. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> This quickly leads to an infinite loop condition where my >> >> > only option >> >> > >> >> > >> >> is to shut down J. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> At the very least, I think I should get an option to have >> >> > the error >> >> > >> >> > >> >> stop execution somehow. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> (13!:0]1 avoids this problem, but why was it a good idea >> >> > >> >> > >> >> to >> >> > make me >> >> > >> >> > >> >> lose control of the J session in the first place?) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> (I'm not sure if this goes in jsource, since I think this >> >> > >> >> > >> >> is >> >> > a jqt >> >> > >> >> > >> >> issue, not a j engine issue. Please let me know, though, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> if >> >> > there's a >> >> > >> >> > >> >> better forum for this topic.) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Raul >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> For information about J forums see >> >> > >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > >> > For information about J forums see >> >> > >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > >> For information about J forums see >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > > For information about J forums see >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > For information about J forums see >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > -- >> >> > >> > regards, >> >> > >> > ==================================================== >> >> > >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> >> > >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> >> > >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 >> >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> > For information about J forums see >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> For information about J forums see >> >> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > regards, >> >> > > ==================================================== >> >> > > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> >> > > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> >> > > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > >> > -- >> > regards, >> > ==================================================== >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > regards, > ==================================================== > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
