What production environments? If we are talking about classroom environments, or development contexts, then shutting down the system is counter-productive.
But I would like some more information on what you are talking about. Thanks, -- Raul On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 7:23 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: > I do not see this change is helpful in production environment. > End users can not see or understand what had happened inside > the wdhandler unless those end users themselves are J users. > At any rate, the system has to be shutdown for maintenance when > there are errors trapped by wdhandler whether there is an > infinite loop or not, because the production system has become > unreliable. > > Пт, 20 май 2016, Raul Miller написал(а): >> Are there any good reasons, though, to not include this change in a >> near future release of qt.ijs? >> >> (As I understand it the only issue here is that it gives a way of >> regaining control of a J session. And while, ok, this might be a >> hypothetical problem for a hypothetical situation, I think we have a >> lot of work to do on making J into something where creating an >> end-user executable is easy and streamlined before "regaining control >> of a J session" can be thought of as a serious problem. Still, if I am >> wrong, I would like to know some specifics about the people who are >> hurt by this regaining of control from an infinite loop error state.) >> >> Put differently: what else do I need to do to get this change into qt.ijs? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Raul >> >> >> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 6:51 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: >> > At least not a big problem for me, since the infinite loop only >> > occurs for paint event. And if it happens I use non-intrusive >> > smoutput instead of wdinfo as I had mentioned. >> > >> > Пт, 20 май 2016, Raul Miller написал(а): >> >> Has this been a big problem, for you? For anyone? >> >> >> >> The problem of being a J programmer and losing control of the system >> >> is an immediate problem, and I think it's a bigger problem. >> >> >> >> Also, for those hypothetical end users who might be "confused" by an >> >> option, it would be possible to "remove choices on their behalf" if >> >> that were actually important. (That might be somewhat arrogant, >> >> though, since this "removal" does not seem to improve anything for >> >> them.) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Raul >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:48 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > IMO errors reported in wdhandler reflect there are some >> >> > programming bugs or unexpected behavior. If it occurs in >> >> > production systems then end users who have no J knowledge should >> >> > whatsapp the screen shot to the developer. Providing more choices >> >> > will confuse end users further. >> >> > >> >> > Пт, 20 май 2016, Raul Miller написал(а): >> >> >> I am seeing some odd things here. One of which is that the previous >> >> >> documentation for wdquery -- >> >> >> http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/user/script_winlib.htm#wdquery >> >> >> -- seems to no longer be valid. Another is that I can not find >> >> >> documentation for wdquery for the current release. (And I am seeing >> >> >> other oddities in behavior, but I am going to stop trying to enumerate >> >> >> those oddities with those two observations.) >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyways, perhaps wdhandler should be changed, replacing >> >> >> >> >> >> wdinfo 'wdhandler';'error in: ',wd_fn,wd_err >> >> >> >> >> >> with something like >> >> >> >> >> >> if. 0~:wdquery 'wdhandler';'error in: >> >> >> ',wd_fn,wd_err,LF,'continue?' do. >> >> >> echo 'DISABLED_',wd_fn >> >> >> ('DISABLED_',wd_fn)=: (5!:1<wd_fn)5!:0 >> >> >> erase wd_fn >> >> >> end. >> >> >> >> >> >> (but, beware email induced line wrap) >> >> >> >> >> >> In other words: >> >> >> >> >> >> [1] Give the user the opportunity to continue. Depending on details of >> >> >> other parts of the system, this may or may not result in further >> >> >> problems. >> >> >> >> >> >> [2] If the user opts not to continue, set aside the definition of the >> >> >> current event handler (which failed) and disable it. (Hypothetically >> >> >> speaking, we might be able to skip the setting aside part, because the >> >> >> definition should be in a script. However, in some cases it might not >> >> >> be.) >> >> >> >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Raul >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:59 PM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > I checked agin, it is the local noun wd_fn inside wdhandler. >> >> >> > so perhaps you can try >> >> >> > ". wd_fn,'=:empty' >> >> >> > or >> >> >> > 4!:55 <wd_fn >> >> >> > inside the catch block. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Пт, 20 май 2016, bill lam написал(а): >> >> >> >> the first few rows of wdq (global set inside wdhander) should >> >> >> >> provide that >> >> >> >> info. see j user manual or jwiki for wd documentation. >> >> >> >> On May 20, 2016 6:55 AM, "Raul Miller" <rauldmil...@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Is there a systematic way of determining which verb name is the >> >> >> >> > name >> >> >> >> > of the currently running event handler? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Thanks, >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> >> > Raul >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:27 AM, bill lam <bbill....@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> > > c++ jqt side did not know what had happened on the j engine so >> >> >> >> > > it will >> >> >> >> > keep >> >> >> >> > > on calling J on paint. You need to make j paint verb a no-op >> >> >> >> > > after the >> >> >> >> > > first popup. >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > For debug suspension, you may want try catchd instead of catch. >> >> >> >> > suspension >> >> >> >> > > in the presence of events is rather troublesome. IIRC all >> >> >> >> > > events except >> >> >> >> > > paint are discarded during suspension, so that you may still >> >> >> >> > > get infinite >> >> >> >> > > in suspension. >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > what I used to do is set >> >> >> >> > > wdinfo_z_=: smoutput_z_ >> >> >> >> > > in order to debug gl paint error. >> >> >> >> > > On May 19, 2016 5:28 PM, "Raul Miller" <rauldmil...@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> So... maybe it would make sense to replace >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> wdinfo 'wdhandler';'error in: ',wd_fn,wd_err >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> in wdhandler with something like >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> if. -.wdquery 'wdhandler';'error in: >> >> >> >> > >> ',wd_fn,wd_err,LF,'continue?' do.throw.end. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> ? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> Except... I tried that, and throw. was not sufficient to stop >> >> >> >> > >> the >> >> >> >> > >> infinite condition with debugging disabled, and that line of >> >> >> >> > >> code >> >> >> >> > >> never runs with debugging enabled. So there is something else >> >> >> >> > >> going >> >> >> >> > >> on, also... >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> Perhaps the best compromise for development purposes would be >> >> >> >> > >> to >> >> >> >> > >> disable the offending handler (erase the name) if the user >> >> >> >> > >> elects >> >> >> >> > >> cancelling out of it? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> -- >> >> >> >> > >> Raul >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:36 PM, bill lam >> >> >> >> > >> <bbill....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> > the popup dialog box is raised by a try catch block in the >> >> >> >> > >> > verb >> >> >> >> > >> wdhandler, >> >> >> >> > >> > since it does not throw an error after the popup, there is no >> >> >> >> > suspension. >> >> >> >> > >> > the gl area partially hidden by the popup box is repainted >> >> >> >> > >> > and since >> >> >> >> > the >> >> >> >> > >> gl >> >> >> >> > >> > paint or any other jqt events has no knowledge that there >> >> >> >> > >> > has been an >> >> >> >> > >> error >> >> >> >> > >> > in j wdhander being caught so there is an infinite loop. >> >> >> >> > >> > You may add >> >> >> >> > >> some >> >> >> >> > >> > codes in the j paint verb to detect that error condition. >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > >> > this had been reported but fixing it is a low priority. >> >> >> >> > >> > On May 19, 2016 5:09 AM, "Raul Miller" >> >> >> >> > >> > <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> Currently, if I am using the gl commands for an isigraph >> >> >> >> > >> >> control, and >> >> >> >> > >> >> there's an error, I get behavior which I do not understand. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> (1) I get a popup telling me that there was an error (and >> >> >> >> > >> >> giving me >> >> >> >> > >> >> the details of the error. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> (2) I only have an "OK" option on that popup. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> (3) When I click "OK", execution resumes as if there were >> >> >> >> > >> >> no error >> >> >> >> > >> >> (presumably on the line following the line with the error. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> This quickly leads to an infinite loop condition where my >> >> >> >> > >> >> only option >> >> >> >> > >> >> is to shut down J. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> At the very least, I think I should get an option to have >> >> >> >> > >> >> the error >> >> >> >> > >> >> stop execution somehow. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> (13!:0]1 avoids this problem, but why was it a good idea to >> >> >> >> > >> >> make me >> >> >> >> > >> >> lose control of the J session in the first place?) >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> (I'm not sure if this goes in jsource, since I think this >> >> >> >> > >> >> is a jqt >> >> >> >> > >> >> issue, not a j engine issue. Please let me know, though, if >> >> >> >> > >> >> there's a >> >> >> >> > >> >> better forum for this topic.) >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> -- >> >> >> >> > >> >> Raul >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > >> >> For information about J forums see >> >> >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > >> > For information about J forums see >> >> >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > >> For information about J forums see >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > > For information about J forums see >> >> >> >> > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > For information about J forums see >> >> >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > regards, >> >> >> > ==================================================== >> >> >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> >> >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> >> >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > For information about J forums see >> >> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > regards, >> >> > ==================================================== >> >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > >> > -- >> > regards, >> > ==================================================== >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > regards, > ==================================================== > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --armor --export 4434BAB3 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
