gerunds are lists of atomic representations?  (yes,ok, that is a noun)

A more basic description of the problem.  Both of these expressions are illegal

3`+
3`+`5

when 2 nouns are joined with "`", ` acts as the verb ",".


I guess the usefulness of that behaviour is that a "conjunction train of `" 
builds up a noun from left to right (actually not sure direction), and there is 
parsing efficiency gained by not checking if the built up noun is a valid 
gerund or not.  Parsing efficiency may not be important though.

These 2 expressions "parse" due to the "lazy"/spartan definition/behaviour of `

+`a:

┌─┬┐

│+││

└─┴┘

a:`+

┌┬─┐

││+│

└┴─┘

I have well tested code that provides "return list of atomic representations" 
behaviour from tie if that is deemed a worthwhile change.

But, my other point was that "visual sugar" that is invalid code can have 
inconveniences.



On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 03:14:58 p.m. EST, Raul Miller 
<rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: 





gerund are nouns.

Thanks,

-- 
Raul

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:51 PM 'Pascal Jasmin' via Programming
<programm...@jsoftware.com> wrote:
>
> Seems I found a bug, though the following approach still works, and has the 
> best performance
>
> ar =: 1 : '5!:1 <''u'''
>
> the bug is:
>
>  ((3 ar)`) (`(5 ar)) (`:6)
>
> ((3`)(`5))(`:6)  NB. not valid gerunds, though magically the following still 
> works
>
> + ((3 ar)`) (`(5 ar)) (`:6)
> 8
>
> +  A=: (((3 ar)`) (`(5 ar)) (`:6))  NB. separate lines still work despite 
> "invalid return"
>
> 8
>
> though the following fails,
>
> + ((3`)(`5))(`:6)
>
> |domain error
>
> representation is supposed to be,
>
> + ((3 ar)`) (`(5 ar))
>
> ┌─────┬─┬─────┐
>
> │┌─┬─┐│+│┌─┬─┐│
>
> ││0│3││ ││0│5││
>
> │└─┴─┘│ │└─┴─┘│
>
> └─────┴─┴─────┘
>
>
> An incompatible change that would seem very welcome to me, would be that
>
> noun ` noun
>
> instead of creating a list from the 2 nouns (pair) if they are magically 
> compatible, would create a pair of atomic representations of each noun.
>
> Because the above code works, it appears as though just "visual sugar" is 
> provided for display.  The proposed incompatible change would make the visual 
> sugar valid code, which is consistent (other than this) within J.
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 11:33:59 a.m. EST, Raul Miller 
> <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Or, more robust:
>
> C=:2 :0
>  mRep=. 5!:5<'m'
>  mVn=. m V n
>  mVnRep=. 5!:5<'mVn'
>  1 :('(',mRep,') u~ ',mVnRep)
> )
>
> Example use:
>
>  V=:+
>  ,. 10 C (i.2 3)
> 10 11 12 10
> 13 14 15 10
>
> (The issue here is that 5!:5 is better than ": when serializing nouns
> for use in sentences.)
>
> Perhaps even better, though, would be to define a verb to serialize
> nouns and use that in place of ":
>
> lrep=:3 :0
>  '(',(5!:5<'y'),')'
> )
>
> C=:2 :0
>  1 :((lrep m),'u~',lrep m V n)
> )
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:48 AM 'Pascal Jasmin' via Programming
> <programm...@jsoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> > C =: 2 : 0
> > 1 : ((": m) , ' u~ ' , ": m V n)
> > )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 03:04:57 a.m. EST, Hauke Rehr 
> > <hauke.r...@uni-jena.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What I want is rather something (C here) callable like
> > noun1 C noun2
> > resulting in the adverb
> > noun1 u~ <result of noun1 V noun2>
> >
> > What you say I knew except if the evaluation
> > rules changed in j9 and this is new bahaviour.
> >
> > That said, I got rid of my nested 1 :/2 :
> > construct (I didn’t mention that yet)
> > and tried replacing m and n by x and y
> > but to no avail.
> >
> > Am 27.02.20 um 01:37 schrieb 'Pascal Jasmin' via Programming:
> > > u or m will be the argument to A.  x and y arguments to resulting verb.
> > >
> > > it sounds as though you may be trying to do
> > >
> > > A =: 1 : 'x u~ x V y'  NB. a valid dyadic adverb in j9
> > >
> > > and this would be equivalent to
> > >
> > > ([ u~ V)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 06:20:45 p.m. EST, Hauke Rehr 
> > > <hauke.r...@uni-jena.de> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello again,
> > >
> > > I’m still confused about modifiers.
> > > Please tell me where to find more information
> > > that might aid in understanding how this works:
> > >
> > > I have an adverb A and a verb V but sometimes
> > > x and y for the derived verb for A are known
> > > prior to the verb, so I want to write a modifier
> > > something like this:
> > >
> > > m (u A)~ m V n
> > >
> > > I get a domain error which afaik is due to both
> > > m and u being bound to the left noun.
> > > So how would one go about this and where to find
> > > further information on constructions like this?
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------
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> > neo-layout.org
> >
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