Yuspik Golden rule nya gold, gospel, and glory
________________________________ From: Bukan Pedanda <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:29 PM Subject: [proletar] Re: Islam and the Golden Rule (Mattius 7: 12) Di agama najis Islam yang layaknya dibuang jauh-jauh itu memang nggk ada golden rule itu... Tapi di agama Nasrani yang manusiawi ada: Mattius 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." --- In [email protected], Musik hari Ini wrote: > > Mana ada the golden rule dalam agama pagan? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Nub > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:33 PM > Subject: [proletar] Re: Islam and the Golden Rule > > >  > WOW, I actually read the whole thing. sangat bagus. > > gw kutip sebagian yg berhubungan dengan beberapa topik debat terakhir dimilis > ini. > > ---------------------------------------- > Muslimin ternyata tidak dapat melihat gajah didepan > mata, namun titik noda diseberang lautan mereka sangat > suka membesar2kan. Perang Salib terjadi 900 tahun yang > lalu (1095 A.D). Bagaimana dengan kejahatan Muslimin > yang terjadi dulu dan sekarang ? Apakah petinggi Sunni > ini juga meminta maaf bagi pembunuhan masal 9/11, atau > pembantaian di Madrid, Beslan dsb dsb ? Bagaimana > dengan invasi Eropa dan penjajahan Spanyol ? DImana > permintaan maaf Muslim ? > > Dunia barat tidak memiliki satu alasanpun untuk > meminta maaf kepada dunia Muslim. Thomas F. Madden, > associate professor dan ketua Department of History di > Universitas Saint Louis dan penulis "A Concise History > of the Crusades" mengatakan, "PERANG SALIB ADALAH > PERANG DEFENSIF." > > "Perang ini adalah tanggapan Barat yang terlambat atas > invasi Muslim terhadap dua-pertiga dunia Kristen," ia > tulis dalam kolum National Review."Pada permulaan abad > 7-10, saat kaum Arab sibuk memperluas kekuasaan dan > mencaplok negara2 sekelilingnya, Eropa sibuk membela > diri melawan invasi bangsa2 lain. Hanya dalam abad ke > 11 Eropa sanggup mencurahkan perhatian kepada orang2 > Arab." > > Menurut Madden, peristiwa yang memulai Perang Salib > adalah penjajahan Turki atas sebagian besar Asia Minor > milik Kristen. > "Kaisar Kristen di Konstantinopel, menghadapi > lenyapnya setengah jumlah kekuasannya, kemudian > meminta bantuan kepada Eropa. Ia mendapatkannya, malah > lebih dari yang ia inginkan," tulis Madden. > > WorldNetDaily.com melaporkan: > â€Å"Dalam beberapa tahun akhir2 ini, pengumuman dari > Al-Azhar menimbulkan kontroversi. Pada tahun 2003, > Sheik Agung Al-Azhar, Muhamad Sayyid Tantawi, > mengatakan bahwa berdasarkan hukum Islam, suicide > bombers dianggap "martyrs". " > > Desember 2002, the Islamic Ruling Committee di > Al-Azhar memutuskan bahwa kepemilikan senjata nuklir > adalah kewajiban agama bagi negara2 Islam. Anggota > panel tsb, Sheikh Ala A-Shanawi mengatakan, "Bangsa > Islam harus mengenal musuh dan mempersiapkan diri." > A-Shanawi menulis, "Rasulullah sendiri akan > mempersiapkan diri dengan segala sumber yang > dimungkinkan guna menghadapi musuh. Oleh karena itu, > jika bangsa Islam tidak dilengkapi dengan persenjataan > yang diinginkan, mereka terpaksa menderita > konsekwensi." > > Dilanjutkannya, "Semua bangsa Islam diwajibkan untuk > merebut persenjataan nuklir. Kami melihat bagaimana > bangsa kita terbelakang akibat kurang persiapan, > sementara musuh melengkapi diri dengan persenjataan > yang paling maju, yang akan digunakannya untuk melukai > dan menghancurkan Muslimin." > > Mengingat sejarah dan sikap Muslimin, menuntut Paus > agar meminta maaf adalah sungguh keterlaluan. Pelaku > perang Salib memang melebihi mandat dan terlibat > tindakan brutal. Namun ini adalah balasan terhadap > kebiadaban Muslimin. Mengapa para petinggti Muslim > tidak menyebut barbaritas Muslim di Iran, Byzantium, > Mesir atau India? Di India sendiri lebih dari 80 juta > orang dibantai oleh pasukan Muslim. Ini lebih banyak > dari korban total Perang Dunia I dan II. > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Si reza bakal tetap menyangkal tuh kalo memang crusade itu perang defensif > terhadap invasi islam, seperti yg gw bilang sebelumnya. > > si jon juga bakal nangis ngeraung2 dilantai kalo dia tau korban diindia oleh > islam, ternyata jumlahnya melebihi perang dunia 1 dan 2. itu baru diindia, > belum ngitung totalnya. kalo ini bener islam taat jon, bunuh bawa2 ayat quran > dan perintah nabi. bukan islam liberal hehe > > --- In [email protected], "Bukan Pedanda" wrote: > > > > > > Item abu sudah sering bilang bahwa Islam itu memang tidak mengenal golden > > rule... > > > > Dan tahun 2005 sudah ada yang ngirim ini: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/message/174859 > > > > --- In [email protected], "Nub" wrote: > > > > > > kayanya bener islam satu2nya agama yg tidak mengajarkan golden rule. > > > heck, i bet most of them dont even know what golden rule is. > > > > > > Islam and the Golden Rule > > > by Ali Sina > > > > > > 30 May, 2009 > > > > > > From faithfreedom.org: > > > > > > Our friend Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, the indefatigable defender of > > > the Western civilization, send me the following email and asked me to > > > answer to the criticism of a Muslim to an article that I wrote four > > > years ago on the incompatibility of Islam and the Golden Rule. Here is > > > this Muslim's rebuttal and my response to him. > > > > > > Recently I came across an attack on your piece on Islam and the Golden > > > Rule. These passages below were cited in refutation. Any guidance you > > > can give me on responding to this would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Islamic Text on the Golden Rule: > > > > > > The Quran: > > > > > > "Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good - to > > > parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, > > > neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer > > > (ye meet), and what your right hands possess [the slave]: For God loveth > > > not the arrogant, the vainglorious" (Q:4:36) > > > > > > (In fact the Quran goes beyond saying the Golden Rule by stating in more > > > than four places that "Return evil with Kindness." (13:22, > > > 23:96, 41:34, 28:54, 42:40) > > > > > > Prophet Muhammad (pbuh): > > > > > > "None of you have faith until you love for your neighbor what you > > > love for yourself" (Sahih Muslim) > > > > > > "Whoever wishes to be delivered from the fire and to enter > > > Paradise…should treat the people as he wishes to be treated." > > > (Sahih Muslim) > > > > > > "None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he > > > wishes for himself" (Forty Hadith-Nawawi) > > > > > > "None of you is a believer if he eats his full while his neighbour > > > hasn't anything." (Musnad) > > > > > > "Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject > > > for others what you would reject for yourselves." (Abu Dawud) > > > > > > "Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you." (Farewell Sermon) > > > > > > "There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm." (Ibn- > > > Majah) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Robert, > > > > > > The Quran is a book of double standards. Indeed, there are exhortations > > > to Muslims to be kind to the poor, the traveler, the orphan and the > > > sick. This is to be expected. If you want to start a religion you must > > > preach something good or you'd not find anyone to believe you. You > > > cannot preach only evil. In order to attract followers you must teach > > > things that people like and can easily identify as good. Once they > > > accept you as a prophet, guru or their spiritual guide, then you can do > > > whatever you want and get away with it. > > > > > > The difference between a true spiritual teacher and a conman is in their > > > consistency. There are several teachings of Muhammad that can be > > > compared to those of Jesus, but the teachings of Jesus are consistent > > > while those of Muhammad are not. Even a criminal can give you good > > > advises, this does not mean this criminal is a good person. > > > > > > When I was young there was a radio show in Iran called A City within Our > > > City. Every week the producer would interview a prison inmate on death > > > roll and the criminal would tell the story of his life and what brought > > > him to crime. At the end of the program the producer would ask, whether > > > the criminal had any advice for young people. These criminals often had > > > the best advises. They knew exactly the difference between right and > > > wrong. I recall thinking, if only someone complied the advices of these > > > criminals he could write the best book of guidance. Good words are dime > > > a dozen. If they are not accompanied by good actions they are worthless. > > > In fact the difference between a great man and a conman is in how much > > > their words and deeds differ. Even Obama came to power by giving good > > > talks. His entire life however was filled with crime and chicanery. > > > Demagogy is the domain of all charlatans and they are good at it. > > > > > > We find similar good exhortations in the teachings of Jim Jones who > > > actually based his religion on "social justice". He even adopted > > > children from many races to set the example. > > > > > > The problem with the good teachings of Muhammad is that they are > > > reserved for fellow Muslims. When the hadith says, "None of you > > > [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for > > > himself,."it is talking about the fellow Muslims. > > > > > > The brotherhood in Islam does not extend to everyone. The Quran (9:23 > > > ) states that > > > the believers should not take for friends and protectors (awlia) their > > > fathers and brothers if they love Infidelity above Islam. In fact there > > > are many verses that tell the Muslims to kill the unbelievers and be > > > harsh to them. A clear example that Islam is not based on the Golden > > > Rule is the verse (48:29) > > > : "Muhammad > > > is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against > > > Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other." This is the > > > perfect definition of fascism. > > > > > > There are many other verses that show the brotherhood in Islam is not > > > universal. The non believers have no rights and should not be treated in > > > the same way that Muslims are to be treated. The entire Quran is a > > > breach of the Golden Rule. The Quran tells Muslims to slay the > > > unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191 > > > ), do not > > > befriend them (3:28 > > > ), fight them > > > and show them harshness (9:123 > > > ), smite their > > > heads (47:4 ), > > > etc. Are these verses compatible with the Golden Rule? > > > > > > Islam is the only doctrine, that calls upon its believers to do evil to > > > others for the simple fact that they are not believers. > > > > > > According to Muslims it is not the Golden Rule that defines the good and > > > bad, it is Muhammad who does it. They believe that what is good for > > > Islam is the highest virtue and what is bad for Islam is the ultimate > > > evil. This is the definition of good and evil in Islam. This is the > > > ethos of all cults. From Asahara's "Aum Shinrikyo" to Jim > > > Jones' "People's Temple"; from Sun Myung Moon's > > > "Unification Chruch" to David Koresh's "Davidian > > > Branch", the recurring theme is that the cult's interests > > > override the human understanding of right and wrong. In order to advance > > > the interest of the cult, which is regarded as the ultimate good, > > > everything, including lying, and even murder and assassination are > > > permissible. The end is deemed to be so lofty that it justifies the > > > means. This is the same idea of fascism where the glorification of the > > > state and the total subordination of the individual to it are enforced. > > > > > > None of the verse quoted above have anything to do with the Golden Rule. > > > > > > Verse 13:22 tells the believers to be patient and generous with their > > > money. This is what all cults demand from their followers. The more > > > sacrifice the cultist make the more he or she can be manipulated. Verse > > > 23:96 asks Muslims to repel evil, whereas the definition of evil for > > > Muhammad was contradicting him. Verse 41:34 is a Meccan verse where > > > Muhammad and his followers were the underdogs and here he preached > > > patience and said repel evil with good so your enemy becomes as friend. > > > Could he have done anything else? These orders changed when Muhammad > > > came to power. In Medina Muhammad banished and massacred entire > > > populations just because he suspected that they may not be friendly to > > > him. 28:54 is a repetition of 23:96 and 42:40 says whoever forgives and > > > amends, he shall have his reward from Allah. However, Muhammad never > > > forgave those who mocked him. As for Muhammad's unforgiving nature > > > it is enough to recall the fate of Oqba the man who when Muhammad was in > > > Mecca used to mock him and when he was captured in the Battle of Badr, > > > Muhammad ordered his decapitation. He ventured to expostulate, and > > > demand why he should be treated more vigorously than the other captives > > > who were kept for ransom. `Because of your enmity to God and to his > > > Prophet,' replied Muhammad. `And my little girl!' cried > > > Oqba, in the bitterness of his soul, `Who will take care of > > > her?' â€" `Hellfire!' exclaimed the heartless conqueror; > > > and on the instant his victim was hewn to the ground. `Wretch that > > > he was!' continued Muhammad, `and persecutor! Unbeliever in > > > God, in his Prophet, and in his Book! I give thanks unto the Lord that > > > has slain you, and comforted mine eyes thereby.'[1] > > > > > > How do you reconcile the claim that Muhammad in his farewell sermon > > > said, "Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you." With the fact > > > that in his deathbed he said, "No two religions are allowed in > > > Arabia" and ordered the forced conversion, expulsion or ethnic > > > cleansing of the Jews and Christian and the murder of Pagans? > > > > > > The sura 9, which is the last words of Muhammad, is a manifesto of > > > discrimination and human rights abuses. This sura alone is proof that > > > Islam is against the Golden Rule > > > > > > The first requisite to feel the pain and suffering of others is to > > > accept that they have feelings like us and they also feel hurt the way > > > we do. If we deny such feelings on others we do not feel any remorse in > > > abusing them. Muhammad claimed all those who disbelieve in Allah are the > > > worst creatures. He even said that all non-believers will end up in hell > > > where they will be tortured for eternity. How then Muslims can treat > > > equally those whom they believe to be worst than beast and that deserve > > > eternal punishment? > > > > > > There is nothing in the Quran and Hadith that would make us believe that > > > Islam is compatible with the Golden Rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! 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