I've been trying to follow this thread and I just have a few things to say.

I've been running Linux on my desktops at work and at home for three years
now.  Linux has come a long way. I started with Red Hat 5.1 and it was fairly
hard to get everything working smoothly, but once it was up, it was very
solid.  Now you can install Mandrake 8.2 in about 5 minutes have it auto
detect your Windows install on another drive or partition, set up the master
boot record (so you can choose what you want to run at boot time, Graphicly),
setup up all your hardware and connect to the internet.

There is nothing in Windows that I can't do in Linux.  I see Microsoft as a
bad habit (eg. smoking), in order to get away from it you need to quit cold
Turkey and force yourself off it.  If I need to create/open/save
Office97/2000/XP documents I can use OpenOffice.org.  If I need to run
Windows Apps(eg Protel), I run Win4Lin.  http://www.netraverse.com/  

There is talk about Linux sales, well you can't determine the amount of users
you have based on sales.  Linux is OpenSource, so users can download and burn
it for free.  There are millions of Linux users and developers.  A website
called The Linux Counter  was created to track Linux users.
http://counter.li.org/ This doesn't show all the users but it does show an
incredible growth.

WalMart.com Is now selling computers with Lindows installed, and soon will
have Mandrake.  So you can see there is great move towards Linux.  With the
new Licensing policies from Microsoft, I see more and more companies and
schools switching to Linux.  They can't afford not to.

I agree with Ivan, for someone that is new to Linux they should check out
Mandrake Linux http://www.mandrakelinux.com/

As you can see I'm Linux advocate and a Protel User.  Like someone said "If
 we don't let Protel know, they will never know.".

Ok I'm done now.  :)

Jason

On Friday 05 July 2002 13:14, Tony Karavidas wrote:
> Ditto.. (See replies below.)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 9:40 AM
> > To: Protel EDA Forum
> > Subject: Re: [PEDA] OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate
> > function.
> >
> >
> > See replies below.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ivan Baggett
> > Bagotronix Inc.
> > website:  www.bagotronix.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 12:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PEDA] OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate
> > function.
> >
> > > Yeah but the funny thing about that is MS is SO BIG, linux
> >
> > doesn't matter
> >
> > > either. Why would MS take a 50% hit in profits to suppress 5% of lost
> >
> > sales
> >
> > > to Linux?  (I'm making up those numbers but I bet they are not too far
> >
> > off)
> >
> > > So they loose a few customers...
> >
> > They wouldn't for 5%.  But that 5% won't stay 5%, it will get bigger.
> > You'll see.
>
> Sure it might get bigger, but even if it doubles it's still small. Reminds
> me of a cancer report on the news saying your chances of getting cancer
> 'xyz' if you live in 'Smalltown, USA' are twice as great. They neglect to
> say that your chances are 1 in 2,000,000,000 as opposed to 1 in
> 4,000,000,000. Sure it's twice as likely, but it's so much more likely you
> won't get it anyway.
>
> > Linux certainly does matter to MS in the server area.  Linux/Unix
> > and Apache
> > web server have almost as much market share (maybe more now) than MS IIS.
> >
> > > Same thing with Altium. If YOU decide not to upgrade because
> >
> > Altium's s/w
> >
> > > doesn't run Linux, so what?  If we ALL decide not to upgrade, then
> > > maybe they will think seriously about Linux, but I doubt it.
> >
> > If we ALL decide not to, there is no maybe about it.  Altium would have
> > to change or go out of business.  Of course, we won't all decide not
> > to...
>
> I still don't know for sure. Selling upgrades to existing customer's isn't
> a way to grow a company. I think if we all told them to 'piss off' they'd
> still have a growing user base from new sales that have no knowledge of
> this group. They make way more money from an $8000 new sale as opposed to a
> $2000 upgrade. In the short term (which is where companies seem to focus)
> they could chance to loose 4 of us for each new customer. Of course they
> wouldn't have the repeated ATS money, which would hurt them in the long
> run. I'm sure most of this wouldn't happen anyway. I'm just babbling.
>
> > > The reason I don't switch to Linux (I'd like to start messing
> >
> > around with
> > it
> >
> > > soon) is because the apps I want to use don't support it. It's
> >
> > a catch 22.
> >
> > True.  At this time, we use Linux only on the LAN server.  If you want to
> > start playing with Linux, get Mandrake Linux and set up a
> > dual-boot system.
> > Most Linux distros have a utility that can non-destructively shrink a
> > Windows partition to make room for Linux partitions on the same drive as
> > Windows partitions.  Or, buy a 40GB drive for $90 and install Linux on
> > it. Make yourself a boot floppy.  When you want to boot Windows, eject
> > the floppy.  When you want to boot Linux, insert the floppy.
>
> Sounds good. I'll try it when I have time.
>
> > > The OS is so secondary to me anyway. I don't spend my time
> >
> > working on the
> >
> > > OS; I spend it in the apps. I could almost care less what OS I'm using.
> >
> > The
> >
> > > core requirement from the OS is that it remains stable and running. I
> > > suppose if I was a systems administrator I would complain more about
> > > the
> >
> > OS,
> >
> > > but I'm not.
> >
> > Maybe you don't care about the OS, but do you care about privacy,
> > security,
> > freedom, and fiscal responsibility?  MS is out to eradicate all
> > of these in
> > their OS plans for the future (WPA, Passport, Palladium, etc.).
>
> Sure I do care about those things. I don't need to tell MS crap about me,
> or I can feed them mis-information. I can just get that stupid reg ID and
> be done with it. As far as security, there are lots of other security
> devices to help where MS falls down. The simple  one is taking a computer
> off the internet when it's not needed. I don't do that because I trust my
> security implementation enough right now, but if I didn't, I would change
> things. Passport: who needs that? I don't. They require it for chat and
> hotmail and I'm sure more stuff, but I don't use any of that. I think there
> are enough people that dislike MS so much, they will act as the watchdogs
> of our computing society and 'alert' us when MS is going too far. So far,
> they haven't bothered me.
>
> The stink about IDs inside the Pentium cracks me up. What the hell could
> they find out about other than your CPU ID? Even if someone set a back door
> in your machine to relate your name or whatever to your CPU, they still
> can't prove it was YOU sitting there typing nasty messages to the prez or
> whatever. It was just your machine that was used. So what? The upside of
> the CPUID that got washed away would have been the ability for more
> security based on the CPUID so if I was going to a secure site and could
> only do it from one machine, that would have helped prove it was THAT
> machine. (Yes I'm sure the ID could be spoofed if someone tried hard
> enough, but if it was buried in some good encryption it would be very
> difficult.
>
> I'm done! :)
>
> > ************************************************************************
> > * Tracking #: CD4936EA26C99A46A599C3A49692CCAF7D3DC8D3
> > *
> > ************************************************************************

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jason Van Dellen
Trilogy-Net Inc.
#4; 1935 - 27Ave NE
Calgary, AB
T2E 7E4

www.trilogy-net.com
Phone (403) 219-8868
Fax  (403) 219-8860
Cell (403) 815-1626
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jason Van Dellen
Trilogy-Net Inc.
#4; 1935 - 27Ave NE
Calgary, AB
T2E 7E4

www.trilogy-net.com
Phone (403) 219-8868
Fax  (403) 219-8860
Cell (403) 815-1626
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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