Abdul:

> "More than he should have." What is that? I was not aware that there was
> any fixed standard for the resale price of Protel software....

There isn't.  "More than he should have" in this context means the price was
bid up by you because you thought it wasn't at fair value - not in any
consideration of what the price should have been if the only folks bidding
were ones that really wanted to buy it.  It's your right to do this, and
it's legal (if it's not part of a fraud scheme), but it's not nice.  The
buyer might have been able to buy it for a few hundred dollars less if you
hadn't meddled.  If I ever see you in person at a car lot, don't get angry
at me if I walk up and offer to buy the car you are negotiating about for
$1000 more!  If you really want that car, my antics will just make it cost
you more!

If you are acting as a middleman or "finder", I can understand tacking a
markup or finder's fee onto any re-sale.  But in the case of this auction,
all you did was make it cost more to the buyer, without adding any value -
he had already "found" the Protel item and was bidding on it, without your
help.

> price. I bid low, not high. I just thought that below $2000 was not only a
> steal, it might have the effect of depressing the market, as other buyers
> discovered that such a low price was paid. They would then wait for
someone
> else to auction their license on ebay, and they might wait forever.

Maybe the market should be depressed to the point where it fits reality.
Protel s/w is too expensive anyway, IMO.  If someone has a real immediate
need for the s/w, they can't wait forever, and will buy it from Protel at or
near full price - like I did for the test equipment I needed.  If not enough
people buy to keep Altium afloat at that price, Altium will just have to
adjust their pricing.  It's called supply and demand.  It's not called
market manipulation.

> probably know nothing else about him. He might have paid too much, but the
> social harm of this is counterbalanced by the benefit to the seller, who

Social harm?  So now we are social engineers too?  Hey, I dig this engineer
stuff - one degree to rule them all!  Oh wait, that's a law degree.  Never
mind...

Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website:  www.bagotronix.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] The going price for P99SE on Ebay


> At 12:16 PM 1/9/2003, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
>
> >That was not nice of you to bid up the price if you didn't want it for
> >yourself.  You just made somebody pay more than he should have.
>
> "More than he should have." What is that? I was not aware that there was
> any fixed standard for the resale price of Protel software....
>
> I don't think it is true that my bid caused anyone to pay more than a fair
> price. I bid low, not high. I just thought that below $2000 was not only a
> steal, it might have the effect of depressing the market, as other buyers
> discovered that such a low price was paid. They would then wait for
someone
> else to auction their license on ebay, and they might wait forever.
>
> There were several bidders after me, but it is true that, if I had not
bid,
> they might have gone back and forth at a lower price. But I'd have been
> very happy to buy the license at the $2025 I bid. True, I'd be buying it
> for resale. Got a problem with that? I would only do this if I felt that
> the going price was way below market value, i.e., I could make, I'd
expect,
> a profit reselling it.
>
> If you found yourself with a surplus license, I think you'd be happy to
see
> higher resale prices!
>
> >Stunts like this are why I have never bought anything by e-bay.
>
> I'd suggest rethinking the matter.
>
> >   Last year I
> >had my assistant (who is an e-bay junkie) bid on some test equipment
items
> >for me.  At the last minute some bozo outbid us.  So it was a big waste
of
> >time.
>
> You were irritated that you were outbid, thus the bidder is a "bozo." You
> probably know nothing else about him. He might have paid too much, but the
> social harm of this is counterbalanced by the benefit to the seller, who
> probably still did not recoup his or her cost (unless, perhaps, he or she
> was a reseller). And in this case he did not pay way too much, because:
>
> >   Then I said, screw this, and I picked up the phone and ordered some
> >new equipment which ended up being of equivalent quality and about the
same
> >price as Mr. bozo paid for the used stuff.
>
> Yes, ebay prices are often too high, because of ignorant buyers. But they
> are also often too low because of a paucity of buyers for the item in
> question, which is a real risk when selling expensive software on ebay.
>
> "Waste of time"? Once one is set up to bid on ebay, it takes a minute to
> place a bid. You don't have to watch the bidding, which can really be a
> waste of time. If you know the value of a thing, bid what you are willing
> to pay and let ebay be your proxy. If you want to learn the value of a
> thing, then watching the bidding can give you some idea, but it is better
> to search for closed auctions as well as doing independent research, such
> as finding the best price you can get off-the-shelf.
>
> Buyers who watch the auctions can definitely pay too much, because they
> think they must "win" the auction.... Winning an auction, really, is
paying
> a fair price, not more.
>
> >BTW, $2500 is what I think a brand new full Protel suite should cost
(from
> >Protel), not $8000, or $9000, or whatever the heck it is now.
>
> Perhaps. It is now $7995; but that is for DXP. The upgrade from 99SE is
> $1995, so one might set a maximum value for 99SE at $6000. Actually, one
> could argue that 99SE is worth a little more, because one can choose when
> to upgrade and $1995 later "costs" less than $1995 now. Protel might also
> offer an upgrade special, though I wouldn't hold my breath. but buyers of
> "used" software still expect to get some discount. I've tried to support
> the price at 25% off of full price, which would suggest $4500, but
> "wholesale" pricing -- i.e., what people seem to be willing to sell the
> software for if they are selling to me as an erstwhile dealer, is at about
> 50% off. If they have to find the buyer, they could expect to get more,
but
> then again they have to put in the effort and there are some possible
> complications that can arise in the transaction.
>
> I hope the buyer of the ebay license realizes that the sale should be
> cleared through Altium.... I can imagine the buyer even paying for escrow,
> which is then cleared when the seller can prove he received the physical
> package, which is worth about $100. I also hope the seller doesn't just
> send off the software and order Altium to transfer the license without
> having been paid, it could be an expensive mistake unless the buyer is
> known. But it will probably work out okay, most people are honest.
>
> The buyer got a tremendous deal, paying less than I have recently paid for
> a 99Se license. If the license includes DXP -- the listing was a tad vague
> and I had no time to find out more -- it was *really* a steal.
>
> If anything I bid too little, not too much.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To leave this list visit:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html
*
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html
*
* Browse or Search previous postings:
* http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Reply via email to