Once again I have to agree with Mr. Brooks.  I wanted to purchase PCB and
Schematic.  I did not want the NanoBoard, PLD, or anything else.  Actually
if there was a free schematic viewer, I wouldn't need the schematic tools
either.  Basically, all I wanted was PCB, not even the router.  I have a
large investment in routers so I don't need to pay extra for Protel's.
Well, I had to insist that Altium keep the nanoboard.  Literally, I had to
insist that it would end up in the trash as soon as I received it.  They
kept it.  One size does not fit all. Marketing has driven this one shoe fits
all for the past few years and it aint workin' guys.    At least OrCAd has
allowed me to purchase the schematic capture without spending 10 grand on
the rest of their layout and simulation.

Mike Reagan

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 1:43 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Would it not be nice?

The key thing here John, may be, that Altium will need to have a separate
group of people to service the needs of their "Simulation/Nanoboard" types
from the PCB/SCH types. They certainly have more issues to respond to.

A full suite of tools says to me.. 'one size fits all'... or more accurately
would be like saying, 'This is the Family Pack entertainment system, oh, you
only wanted a tennis racket? Well just you can store the ping pong table and
the billiards, The baseball bat and gloves, and the bonus camping
accessories in your garage and use them later...sorry, we can't break up the
set, there are no discounts'...

Most of the PCB designers today don't need the simulation tools, or the FPGA
tools. Although we may need them in the future when the boards we have to do
are too complex to properly layout, the simulation tools might help us deal
with impedance issues, line lengths, crosstalk, EMI, etc.

Besides, Xilinx gives away a very nice development package to folks that
want to work with their FPGA products... we already have one. But I don't
use it... the EE/FPGA engineer uses it. The PCB guy(me)just does boards and
schematics. And the EE/FPGA guy does not layout the boards.

I liked having a tool that did a specific job, much like the tools I keep in
my toolbox. I hate those 'one tool does it all' things, you have to convert
them like 'TRANSFORMERS ROBOTS' into different configurations to do a simple
task.... it means we just work harder for the same task and the tool
typically is not as strong as the tool that was designed for the specific
task. Sort of the 'Swiss Army Knife' approach. Yea you can pull a set of
pliers out of it, but are they good for anything?  The can opener only opens
smaller cans, the compass sort of works if you hold it like... this, etc.

If I bought a 'suite' of tools, like a set of wrenches, I would expect them
to do their job well, and cover all the aspects of the jobs they were
intended to do. They would work seamlessly when switching from one job to
another, but I would not have to assemble them into a 'combined' tool that
would fall apart or be too weak for the task intended or damage the item I
am working on... then it would be a useless tool set.

I still only use one wrench at a time... much like using design tools in a
sequential manner. The product should seamlessly convert from one tool to
the other, but it should not require me to use them in combination in order
to accomplish a task. Nor should I have to open every drawer in the entire
'tool box' in order to find only one 'wrench'.

In this aspect I think Protel 98 had an advantage over the current products.

The ability to convert other CAD systems databases to Protel is also a very
powerful tool and should have been supported more completely as the product
has evolved. So many more customers 'jump' to a product when it offers to
convert their old legacy databases into their new purchased format.

I believe Altium/Protel has lost its 'common sense'... or maybe PCB designer
sense at the very least.

Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510

-----Original Message-----
From: John A. Ross [RSDTV] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 4:33 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: [PEDA] Would it not be nice?

Proper pin / gate swapping, a VERY high wish on all users wish list, still
has not made it, but would have been nice, but we have FPGA tools, so much
better than pin / gate swapping.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:00 AM
> To: DXP Technical Forum
> Subject: Re: [dxp] NanoBoard
> snipped <
> I would be interested to know why you feel the need to use
> ISE and what areas of it are most interesting / useful to you.
> Best Regards,
> Nick

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