Well, as a programmer I think you might be right. As an Apple developer, if they looked at my code and found accessibility issues and that is what I was reporting then they would be within their right to ask that either I fix the issues or show why I believe they aren't causing the problem.
This really can be kindly passed along to all parties and ask that they JOINTLY look at the issue and see what can be done. Please be careful before categorically stating that one or the other party has no responsibility. If they are responsible engineers they shouldn't flatly state they aren't at fault and at least be willing to entertain the idea of a joint look. Has the inspector been used by Avid? If so, I'd hope they are aware of the issues generated by the inspector and what they might mean and there potential side effects. Best, J. R. P. S. I'm just glad I kept my Lion partition around just to use with, yes we will say it quietly, Pro Tools. It is the only thing still over there that requires that partition. I have to do a recording for a concert in a few weeks and while PT might be overkill it is still pretty good. <grin> From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Norman Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:16 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple's initial response Well, the reason I mention Avid is simple. If Apple start looking at the flood of reports about the same bug, all pertaining to Pro Tools, they'll do what they've done already, and try and palm it off on Avid. If they continue to get the bug returned to them, and the look into it, I'm sure they have actual programmers who really understand the stuff this tool is telling me, and what it's saying, is that Pro Tools isn't exactly squeaky clean. A few accessibility descriptions here and there, and so it gives them more reason to try and pass the book to Avid. I have already emailed Apple about it, and as I previously said, got the same response as Chris, and you Slau, and presumably everyone else who's emailed them, but I don't think we should hold Apple soully responsible for this problem, just because your friend, who is remaining nameless, told you it's a bug on Apple's end. I have no clue about the stuff I'm seeing, but it still can't hurt, if this information is packageable, to send it to Avid, and point out that although most likely, the edit values are an Apple bug, Pro Tools does have some accessibility flaws, which Apple will likely want sorting before it'll even consider the possibility that it's largest piece of software has a bug. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman <chris.norm...@googlemail.com> On 13 Nov 2012, at 22:06, Slau Halatyn wrote: Please, forget about Avid. As I said several times, this has nothing to do with them. Focus on Apple. Thanks, Slau On Nov 13, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Chris Norman wrote: OK, I found it, and I can happily examine the control. It seems to be telling me it's a button, but then text area is mentioned too. Is there any way to bundle up all the information I found, and send it off to Apple, and / or Avid for analysis? Funnily enough, when I ran a full accessibility analysis of Pro Tools, the only things that kicked off errors were the pan knobs having a press action, and about 140 errors from what looked like Apple's own inputs menu. Cheers, Just downloading xCode on my Lion in Take care, Chris Norman <chris.norm...@googlemail.com> On 13 Nov 2012, at 20:54, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote: Man these people changed the whole structure again, so i have to look for it. Sometimes this company frustrates the hell out of me. <zato1.jpg> "Light has no value without darkness" Mob: +642102277190 Skype: Shainobi1 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 This message is protected by article 4-210 of a certain book of laws but you don't have to worry about privacy issues if you are the intended recipient. However, if any freakish circumstance such as ip sniffing, honey pot open relay servers or an honest mistake caused a transmission error, please advise the sender and throw your laptop into a bubble bath to avoid all illicit data retention. On 14/11/2012, at 9:44 AM, Chris Norman <chris.norm...@googlemail.com> wrote: I have Xcode on my laptop. How would I do that? Sent from my iPhone On 13 Nov 2012, at 20:40, Yuma Antoine Decaux <jamy...@gmail.com> wrote: Hey Scott, I think you guys should try to pinpoint the issue ui elements with the accessibility inspector that's bundled with x-code. At least you can see what part of the interface has problems, and it even tells you whether the axaccessibility api has been properly coded. Cheers Yuma <zato1.jpg> "Light has no value without darkness" Mob: +642102277190 Skype: Shainobi1 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 This message is protected by article 4-210 of a certain book of laws but you don't have to worry about privacy issues if you are the intended recipient. However, if any freakish circumstance such as ip sniffing, honey pot open relay servers or an honest mistake caused a transmission error, please advise the sender and throw your laptop into a bubble bath to avoid all illicit data retention. On 14/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Scott Chesworth <scottcheswo...@gmail.com> wrote: Hey Yuma, The issue we're trying to draw their attention to is that in the edit window of Pro Tools, counter values (that speak start time, the range you have selected etc) have suddenly started just saying "numeric text" instead of speaking dynamic information like "beat 3, 480 ticks etc". It's also not possible anymore to tell which edit tool you currently have selected with VO, or which edit mode you're in. These things all worked a treat in Snow Leopard and Lion, but have kicked the bucket in ML for some reason even though Avid haven't changed anything at their end. So far, I haven't seen the same behaviour in any other app, so can't imagine what's causing the issue. Nektarios, no, they definitely don't. However, I've lost many many, hours of my life and a big chunk of sanity arguing that point. Currently I have nothing to show for it (other than a sore head from all that repetition and cyber wall banging). Things should be different, but they're not. That's not down to a lack of effort on our part. I'll reply to the email anyway, keep calm and carry on as the saying goes. Scott On 11/13/12, Yuma Antoine Decaux <jamy...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, could you tell me what the issue with voice over is? I have access to the apple bug reporting system. If i can emulate something similar within one of the standard apps as well, i may be able to have a direct line with the engineers. Let me know Cheers Yuma "Light has no value without darkness" Mob: +642102277190 Skype: Shainobi1 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 This message is protected by article 4-210 of a certain book of laws but you don't have to worry about privacy issues if you are the intended recipient. However, if any freakish circumstance such as ip sniffing, honey pot open relay servers or an honest mistake caused a transmission error, please advise the sender and throw your laptop into a bubble bath to avoid all illicit data retention. On 14/11/2012, at 6:36 AM, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote: Apple's initial response to me was as follows: Thank you for your email. Apple relies on each application developer to properly implement the necessary components into their applications that allow VoiceOver to work correctly. Unfortunately AVID has not provided an update for ProTools that would allow their software to work correctly with VoiceOver in OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion. We recommend that you contact AVID directly to provide them feedback on the features you are finding do not work. Apple Accessibility I responded and copied a couple of people at Apple who initially suggested contacting the accessibility team. I essentially reiterated the fact that Avid did, indeed, do the necessary work and that, since the problem does not exist in Snow Leopard and Lion, it's a problem with VoiceOver and Mountain Lion. I encourage anyone who gets the same canned response to come back with further support of the argument. Slau
