Hi, I agree with you on these issues as I myself don't speak the legal language and also think the legal message should be reserved for people who speak legal language. I also usually write companies about refunds before buying something if I am not sure and I also find getting results is much easier if you can provide resources like the accessibility information for Apple developers or windows developers as if a company can have something to read about accessibility then there is a better chance things can get done but if you can't provide resources then companies have no place to turn for information. Nick Gawronski On Tue, June 17, 2014 10:36 pm, Chris Smart wrote: > Scott, that is the most useful post I've read on any list in a long time! > > > To summarize: don't just come across as a winy > entitled blind person with an enormous chip on your shoulder. (grin) Oops, > I'll leave this to > Scott who is much more diplomatic. > > > At 10:27 PM 6/17/2014, you wrote: > >> I'm not saying don't write to people, I'm saying take the approach >> that's gonna get on the right side of people and use your energy the most >> effective way you can. It doesn't hurt to write to developers and >> companies to make them aware of your existence and whatever usability >> issues you're experiencing. It can, however, hurt a lot to get off on >> the wrong foot with whoever reads that initial approach. That's why I >> make contact as a humble end user, and leave the legal bombs to be >> dropped by the type of people who actually understand the legalities and >> know how to speak the language of law. Similarly, it doesn't hurt to >> make anyone aware that you're a student, but personally I'd steer well >> clear of trying to use education as some sort of game-changer unless >> you're employed by a name that carries some weight in that field. My >> point is that some of the words you're using can very easily come over >> as abrupt and/or threatening. That's something you need to consider >> because A) you don't want whoever reads your email to finish reading >> with that impression as the takeaway and B) you're not in a position to >> pull out the big guns and back up the type of language you're using. >> None of us are. >> >> >> For what it's worth, my advice is to forget the law, forget that >> you're writing on behalf of however many thousand blind people, and >> concentrate on how you're coming across. Every positive change I've had >> a hand in making when it comes to accessibility has been as a result of >> concise emails that've portrayed me as a keen and approachable end user >> who's happy to put his money where his mouth is. I'm yet to see any >> other approach work. That's not discrediting the Pro Tools petition btw, >> because even that relied on an established relationship between >> Digidesign and a couple of key faces as opposed >> to thousands of angry blind people blustering on about someone being held >> accountable for something. >> >> To finish on a more positive note, it's probably worth pointing out >> here that I've never yet seen a plugin developer who's unwilling to >> provide a refund if you can't use their plug and they're not willing or >> able to improve that situation. If there's a demo, try before you buy >> obviously. If not, I usually establish a quick friendly dialogue before >> making the purchase to let them know I'm gonna take it for a spin and >> agree what'll happen if it doesn't work out. In 12 years of doing this >> stuff, I've only ever had to push unreasonably hard for a refund once. >> Nice going, Toontrack. >> >> >> Scott >> >> >> On 6/18/14, Nick Gawronski <n...@nickgawronski.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Well it does not hurt to write them about these issues I mean the >>> plugin developers about the legal issues regarding accessibility in >>> an educational setting as even if you yourself are not in one others >>> are and it could also be they just have never met a blind person who >>> uses pro tools. None of my teachers have ever heard of a blind person >>> doing audio engineering using pro tools have you looked into starting >>> an on line petition about these inaccessible plugins as we could pass >>> the link around and even people who don't really use these plugins but >>> who would love to can sign and we can see how many signatures we can >>> get and if we get enough signatures they should listen? I for one >>> would not pay for a set of plugins only to find out they don't work >>> with pro tools and then the company will not refund my money. Nick >>> Gawronski >>> On Tue, June 17, 2014 8:21 pm, Scott Chesworth wrote: >>> >>>> Lol, Nick, I'd love to live in your world man. There is definitely >>>> a time to accept that a situation is what it is and move along to >>>> try and make a positive impact somewhere else. You can't win 'em >>>> all, but you can depress the hell out of yourself trying. >>>> >>>> Btw, if involvement from a major blindness organisation or bandying >>>> phrases like "held accountable" about ever does anything good for >>>> anybody in this context, I'll eat my words, and Slau's shoes for >>>> good measure. >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/18/14, Nick Gawronski <n...@nickgawronski.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, We can't give up on mailing companies about accessibility of >>>>> their plugins as it is like if we stop emailing them about it it >>>>> is like saying your right we don't need to be able to use the >>>>> plugins the sited can use. I would suggest you keep emailing them >>>>> and perhaps even researching phone numbers to call. Depending on >>>>> where you live you might look into the blindness groups like in >>>>> the USA we have the National Federation of the Blind NFB as lots >>>>> of schools are also using these plugins and the company could be >>>>> held accountable if students can't pass courses because of >>>>> accessibility issues. Nick Gawronski On 6/17/2014 11:44 AM, Chris >>>>> Smart wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> yeah, it's by far the best/most natural one. I wish we could >>>>>> use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> At 11:20 AM 6/17/2014, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that many use either waves tune, or Auto Tune. Some >>>>>>> of my clients are becoming more familiar with Melodyne so that >>>>>>> is why I asked about that particular one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Chris Smart >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 6:07 AM >>>>>>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Meladyne? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just curious - what are folks using in PT for >>>>>>> pitch correction? Believe me, I'd prefer to never use the >>>>>>> stuff, but sometimes I just have to... especially with the >>>>>>> public expecting it and being more pitch conscious because of >>>>>>> it. Anyway, on the Windows side, Autotune is still our one >>>>>>> accessible option. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 02:30 AM 6/17/2014, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry about the miss spell, thanks for the quick answer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan >>>>>>>> Albertshauser >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 9:55 PM >>>>>>>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Meladyne? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> First of all, itâ EURO (tm)s called â EURO oemelodyneâ EURO >>>>>>>> and secondly, It isnâ EURO (tm)t accessible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best Stefan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: <mailto:heavens4r...@gmail.com>Poppa Bear >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:32 AM >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> <mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com>ptaccess@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Meladyne? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey gang, is meladyne accessible back in PT 8? Thanks >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are >>>>>>>> subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" >>>>>>>> group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>> <mailto:ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>ptaccess+unsu >>>>>>>> bscrib e@googlegr >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> oups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>https://groups.google.co >>>>>>>> m/d/op tout. -- You received this message because you are >>>>>>>> subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" >>>>>>>> group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>> <mailto:ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>ptaccess+unsu >>>>>>>> bscrib e@googlegr >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> oups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>https://groups.google.co >>>>>>>> m/d/op tout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are >>>>>>>> subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" >>>>>>>> group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>> <mailto:ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>ptaccess+unsu >>>>>>>> bscrib e@googlegr >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> oups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>https://groups.google.co >>>>>>>> m/d/op tout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> Google >>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>> it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more >>>>>>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> Google >>>>>>> Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>> it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more >>>>>>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups >>>>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more >>>>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more >>>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, >>> visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are >> subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To >> unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
