Re: The need for RDF in Linked Data

Kingsley Idehen Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:37:05 -0700

On 6/17/13 5:26 PM, David Wood wrote:

Nicely done, Kingsley! That is an excellent exploration of the boundaries.
Yes, it is RDF (of course), but crappy RDF since the predicates are hardly likely to be reused by others or even mapped via owl:sameAs.
Yes, it is Linked Data, but crappy Linked Data because it doesn't link out to anything. The bogus Content-Type is something we have (almost) all learned to live with.
Crappy != broken, but it is still crappy ;-)


Amen!

Kingsley


Regards,
Dave
--
http://about.me/david_wood

On Jun 17, 2013, at 14:17, Kingsley Idehen <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

On 6/17/13 1:35 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:

It's number 3 because it's RDF (Turtle) and it's using URIs to describe things. And links to other data.

Let's put aside the Turtle assumption debate since it (like Media Type) doesn't have any concrete bearing on this exercise.

How about the document denoted by this URI/URL: <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl>

Is that an RDF document? If not, is it a Linked Data document? Or is it neither?



Kingsley

Can you make your point more clearly rather than answering my question with other questions?

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Kingsley Idehen <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


    On 6/17/13 1:09 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:

    What makes it RDF is that you can take the contents of this URL
    and stick it in any popular RDF parser and it will parse it for
    you.

    It's still bad quality Linked Data because it's missing
    mime-types. Anyway back to my initial question "How do you
    produce Linked Data without RDF?"


    To cleanup this experiment, here's a URI/URL that denotes a
    version of the file (note: there where some errors in the
    initial document e.g. "." where I meant to have ";") on my server:

    
<http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl>
    
<http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl>
    .

    You can also just copy and past the content to your document to
    yours.

    Back to the question and exercise, what's the defining
    characteristic that makes either of our documents  (denoted by
    their respective URI/URLs) RDF documents, specifically? Here are
    some document type options to select from:

    1. Structured Data
    2. Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles
    3. RDF based Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles.


    Note, I am not expecting Media Types to play any role in this
    experiment.

    Kingsley



    On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen
    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        On 6/17/13 12:51 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:

        Done: http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt

        That's still RDF so I don't get your point.


        Really? How?

        curl -I http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt

        HTTP/1.1 200 OK
        Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:57:10 GMT
        Server: Apache
        Pragma: no-cache
        Cache-Control: no-cache
        Content-Disposition: attachment
        Content-Length: 427
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


        What makes it RDF?

        Related:

        1.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model
        
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%E2%80%93attribute%E2%80%93value_model>
        -- EAV
        2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976
        dissertation that covers unified views of data (note: a
        simple example of these concepts that even predate the
        World Wide Web).

        Kingsley



        On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Kingsley Idehen
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
        wrote:

            On 6/17/13 11:02 AM, Luca Matteis wrote:


            On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Kingsley Idehen
            <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                Linked Data is also something you can produce,
                without any knowledge of RDF.


            What do you mean "without any knowledge of RDF"? How
            do you produce Linked Data without RDF? Please give
            us an example before making statements on behalf of
            the community.

            If you recall (earlier today) I presented you with a
            simple exercise which would answer the question you've
            posed above, demonstrably.

            Here's that I posted:


            Webby Structured Data:

            Simply copy and paste the following to a Web
            accessible location (URL) and then share the URL via a
            response to this mail. If you can't then simply let me
            know and I'll do that for you.

            ## Structured Data Representation using Turtle Notation ##

            <>
            a <#Document> .
            <#mentions> "Linked Data" , "Linked Data", "Semantic
            Web", "Inference Reasoning", "Web".
            <#comment> "A mailing list post about Linked Data and
            RDF".
            <#seeAlso> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data>
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data>,
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF>
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF>,
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web>
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web>,
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web>
            <http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web>

            ## End ##

            What is the above to you?

            1. Webby Structured Data -- constructable using basic
            knowledge of Entity Relationship Models e.g. EAV
            (Entity-Attribute-Value based structured data
            representation)
            2. RDF based Structured Data -- i.e., structured data
            endowed with machine- and human-comprehensible entity
            relationship semantics as defined by RDF (a framework).

            Related:

            1.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model
            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%96attribute%96value_model>
            -- EAV
            2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976
            dissertation that covers unified views of data (note:
            a simple example of these concepts that even predate
            the World Wide Web).

            Regards,

            Kingsley Idehen     
            Founder & CEO
            OpenLink Software
            Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com  <http://www.openlinksw.com/>
            Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen  
<http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
            Twitter/Identi.ca  <http://Identi.ca>  handle: @kidehen
            Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
            LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

        Regards,

        Kingsley Idehen 
        Founder & CEO
        OpenLink Software
        Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com  <http://www.openlinksw.com/>
        Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen  
<http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
        Twitter/Identi.ca  <http://Identi.ca>  handle: @kidehen
        Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
        LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

    Regards,

    Kingsley Idehen     
    Founder & CEO
    OpenLink Software
    Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com  <http://www.openlinksw.com/>
    Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen  
<http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
    Twitter/Identi.ca  <http://Identi.ca>  handle: @kidehen
    Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
    LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen



--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca  <http://Identi.ca>  handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen



--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

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Re: The need for RDF in Linked Data

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