On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:25:56 -0600 grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote:
> okay, i think i have a better idea now of what you are going for. i > can't really offer a quick solution, but it will likely involve > programming. I think you're better off trying to start with a web > cam or something like that as an input device. I know that > processing has libraries for accessing camera devices, I'm sure Pd > probably does too... then its a matter of mapping graphical data to > sound. > > it seems like the software you're looking at, arss amd enscribe are > mapping visual data to audio frequency data. each one probably uses > a different technique and method of mapping to get the sounds out of > an image. here's what enscribe does: > > The scanlines of the input image are converted into frequency > components and > > then using an inverse Fast Fourier Transform, are converted into > > sound. The left side of the image is the low frequency end, and the > > right is the high end, up to just under the Nyquist limit if you > > want it. > > > > there's a whole world out there of people doing this kind of stuff, I > just found this: > > I think any discussion of "transcoding" image (or other data) into > sound has to take into account that such mapping is purely > subjective. The artistry is in finding meaningful transpositions from > one medium to another. Using "raw" data as sample values is certainly > one way, and using an image as spectrographic values for resynthesis > is certainly another. There are certainly enough softwares out there > that do either trick, and those sounds are familiar to us from the > many many artists who have used those softs already (to death in some > cases). Dig a little deeper and decide for yourself the relationship > of pixel to sample instead of relying on other people's ready-mades > and you might be on to something new. > > Basically, any image source used as a sound source is a matter of > deciding how the data gets mapped. A good place to start would > probably be for you to design a mapping method for static images that > makes sounds you like, and then explore various images and patterns > that produce sound. you could likely do this in Pd, but i'm not > familiar enough with it to know how. > > I know in the old days people used to 'animate' sound. Films had the > audio soundtrack actually printed on them as a waveform and a photo > sensor would read that data to reproduce audio electronically. Some > animators started drawing their own patterns of light and dark in > order to synthesize sound directly onto film. > > I don't want to discourage your idea, i do think it is an interesting > one... i'm imagining a scanner that you can set different images on > to get different sounds, or control the speed and light sensitivity > as you said... it could be pretty neat. but i think it might be an > uphill battle, and there's probably other ways you could put your > graphical background to work making digital sound. > > -grant > > > > 2010/11/12 João Mário <[email protected]> > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:50:26 -0600 > > grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > i imagine what you really want to do is be able to somehow map > > > data coming in from the scanner to some sort of musical or more > > > interesting sound. use scanner data as control data for some > > > audio generator. > > > > > > i'm not sure how you'd manage that... i'm guessing it is possible > > > with some level of programming knowledge. > > > > > > if that is the case let me know, then we can maybe attack this at > > > a different angle. > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:23 PM, grant centauri > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > cat simply dumps the output of one thing into the standard > > > > output. if you type cat readme.txt you'll get the whole text of > > > > the readme file pumped out into your terminal screen. if you do > > > > cat mysong.mp3 you'll get a bunch of gobbledygook flooding your > > > > terminal. > > > > > > > > /dev/dsp is the device name of your sound card. so if you cat > > > > the contents of a file or the output of another device you can > > > > use the redirect command, > > > > >, to send that output to /dev/dsp and you'll likely hear > > > > >something. > > > > > > > > for example i just did this command: > > > > > > > > sudo cat audio/HumanAfterAll.wav > /dev/dsp > > > > > > > > and i'm now listening to a sort of ringing noisy mess. > > > > > > > > doing: > > > > > > > > sudo cat Desktop/americas_logo.png > /dev/dsp > > > > > > > > gave me like 15 seconds of whitish noise. > > > > > > > > if your scanner is a usb scanner, you can find out what device > > > > it is by plugging it in and running this command in a terminal: > > > > > > > > dmesg | tail > > > > > > > > I just did it with a wireless mouse device and got this info: > > > > > > > > [17792.582043] usb 3-2: new low speed USB device using uhci_hcd > > > > and address 2 > > > > [17792.746260] usb 3-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice > > > > [17792.781655] input: Wireless Mouse Wireless Mouse as > > > > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:10.1/usb3/3-2/3-2:1.0/input/input6 > > > > [17792.781866] generic-usb 0003:05FE:0011.0002: input,hidraw1: > > > > USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Wireless Mouse Wireless Mouse] on > > > > usb-0000:00:10.1-2/input0 > > > > > > > > i searched around my /dev directory and found this: > > > > > > > > /dev/bus/usb/003/002 > > > > > > > > I take that as usb3-2 > > > > > > > > your machine might be different, but the usb scanner should > > > > come up as a device somewhere in /dev/bus/usb > > > > > > > > so then you could have a terminal open, run the cat command and > > > > then control your scanner with whatever software you have on > > > > your computer to scan images or something like that. > > > > > > > > its not very elegant, but you might get some noise out of it. > > > > > > > > 2010/11/11 João Mário <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:45:13 +0000 > > > >> Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > On 11/11/2010 11:29 PM, esphera wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Just wondering that you might understand me wrong the > > > >> > > previous post. I want to know how can I make a scanner's > > > >> > > input data, transformed into sound? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I had some advices such as "hack the drivers" or "you can > > > >> > > do it with puredata" > > > >> > > > > > >> > > but I would really like to know how? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > thanks very much > > > >> > > > > > >> > > p.s.: I already use arss and enscribe software. but I want > > > >> > > hardware stuff. > > > >> > > > > >> > I don't think you'll be able to just do it with pure > > > >> > hardware. Every scanner has a commmunication protocol, even > > > >> > old-fashioned parallel port scanners. You need at least > > > >> > something like an Arduino to send the commands the scanner > > > >> > is listening for to start it scanning. > > > >> > > > > >> > Which isn't really related to pure:dyne... > > > >> > > > > >> > - Rob. > > > >> > > > > >> > --- > > > >> > [email protected] > > > >> > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > > >> > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > > >> > > > >> It certainly isn't related to p:d but I thought that p:d > > > >> community would fit in this kind of project... so I ask for > > > >> opinion > > > >> > > > >> @grant centauri - what those commands do? > > > >> > > > >> --- > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > > >> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > yes it's exactly that! :) like arss or enscribe (maybe this software > > can be taken as study?..) > > I don't know as I'm from image and type cult rather than > > programming. I do have a strong and growing interest in electronics > > and programming thanks to puredyne! and I would like very much to > > see this work as a kind of instrument with some controls > > over the speed of scan light or sensitivity... I want to go that > > way if you read me. probably with pd and some midi controllers? > > > > --- > > [email protected] > > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > hey man thanks for your time! you really did touch the G point, the question of how data is mapped has been revolving on my head. But then I think that the image as spectogram is nice for what i'm looking for because I want to actually see what kind of imagery makes what kind of sound (so that my images production affects sound production and viceversa) but then urges another question: I think the synthesis type is the thing that i'm missing in understanding. arss uses both sine and noise synthesis. enscribe i'm not sure. I got in touch with the creator and all he said to me was : "A lot more time and energy has gone into ARSS, I think they use additive synthesis instead of iFFT, so the architectures are completely different. enscribe was never intended for synthesis, just as a way to hide images inside songs. http://photosounder.com/examples.php also looks pretty cool, and there's a free demo." What I said to him was that I like arss's the most for the kind of clean sound results that it produced, but enscribe offers color mapping related to panning and stuff, and that a fusion of both would be perfect. But, I can't do it and i don't have the time to study about it. So concluding this tought, I want to know what kind of synthesis is more "pure" to what i'm looking for as a kind of synesthesia thing you see? Thanks a lot one more time for your time! I really expect more ideas :) --- [email protected] http://identi.ca/group/puredyne irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
