On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:32:51 -0600
grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote:

> i checked out photosounder, it looked pretty awesome.  its weird,
> while we were discussing this earlier, i essentially thought of the
> program arss and was trying to figure out how it would work.  you
> could essentially store any kind of data as sound, then like play the
> sound into a microphone to reproduce what you stored.
> 
> perhaps we should make this some kind of puredyne americas project to
> work on.  i've been doing some research into granular synthesis and
> representations of sound.  i think a sort of pixel to grain map
> scheme could make a pretty neat instrument.  you'd control a matrix
> of pixels which would have correlations to various elements of
> granular sound.  i can actually envision a lot of things you could do
> with this, and with granular sound you could essentially have an
> endless pallete of timbre/texture... and you could control
> traditional musical elements with more basic control over
> pitch/envelope/ or whatever...
> 
> anyways, its definitely a possibility, it just depends on the way you
> want to go i guess.  i'm not sure if we have the resources to make
> something quickly, but i do believe the tools are there to do what
> you want to do, and there are various ways you could realize a link
> between visual and audible data.
> 
> -grant
> 
> 2010/11/13 João Mário <[email protected]>
> 
> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:25:56 -0600
> > grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > okay, i think i have a better idea now of what you are going
> > > for.  i can't really offer a quick solution, but it will likely
> > > involve programming.  I think you're better off trying to start
> > > with a web cam or something like that as an input device.  I know
> > > that processing has libraries for accessing camera devices, I'm
> > > sure Pd probably does too... then its a matter of mapping
> > > graphical data to sound.
> > >
> > > it seems like the software you're looking at, arss amd enscribe
> > > are mapping visual data to audio frequency data.  each one
> > > probably uses a different technique and method of mapping to get
> > > the sounds out of an image.  here's what enscribe does:
> > >
> > > The scanlines of the input image are converted into frequency
> > > components and
> > > > then using an inverse Fast Fourier Transform, are converted into
> > > > sound. The left side of the image is the low frequency end, and
> > > > the right is the high end, up to just under the Nyquist limit
> > > > if you want it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > there's a whole world out there of people doing this kind of
> > > stuff, I just found this:
> > >
> > > I think any discussion of "transcoding" image (or other data) into
> > > sound has to take into account that such mapping is purely
> > > subjective. The artistry is in finding meaningful transpositions
> > > from one medium to another. Using "raw" data as sample values is
> > > certainly one way, and using an image as spectrographic values
> > > for resynthesis is certainly another. There are certainly enough
> > > softwares out there that do either trick, and those sounds are
> > > familiar to us from the many many artists who have used those
> > > softs already (to death in some cases). Dig a little deeper and
> > > decide for yourself the relationship of pixel to sample instead
> > > of relying on other people's ready-mades and you might be on to
> > > something new.
> > >
> > > Basically, any image source used as a sound source is a matter of
> > > deciding how the data gets mapped.  A good place to start would
> > > probably be for you to design a mapping method for static images
> > > that makes sounds you like, and then explore various images and
> > > patterns that produce sound.  you could likely do this in Pd, but
> > > i'm not familiar enough with it to know how.
> > >
> > > I know in the old days people used to 'animate' sound.  Films had
> > > the audio soundtrack actually printed on them as a waveform and a
> > > photo sensor would read that data to reproduce audio
> > > electronically.  Some animators started drawing their own
> > > patterns of light and dark in order to synthesize sound directly
> > > onto film.
> > >
> > > I don't want to discourage your idea, i do think it is an
> > > interesting one... i'm imagining a scanner that you can set
> > > different images on to get different sounds, or control the speed
> > > and light sensitivity as you said... it could be pretty neat.
> > > but i think it might be an uphill battle, and there's probably
> > > other ways you could put your graphical background to work making
> > > digital sound.
> > >
> > > -grant
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/11/12 João Mário <[email protected]>
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:50:26 -0600
> > > > grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > i imagine what you really want to do is be able to somehow map
> > > > > data coming in from the scanner to some sort of musical or
> > > > > more interesting sound.  use scanner data as control data for
> > > > > some audio generator.
> > > > >
> > > > > i'm not sure how you'd manage that... i'm guessing it is
> > > > > possible with some level of programming knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > if that is the case let me know, then we can maybe attack
> > > > > this at a different angle.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:23 PM, grant centauri
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > cat simply dumps the output of one thing into the standard
> > > > > > output. if you type cat readme.txt you'll get the whole
> > > > > > text of the readme file pumped out into your terminal
> > > > > > screen. if you do cat mysong.mp3 you'll get a bunch of
> > > > > > gobbledygook flooding your terminal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /dev/dsp is the device name of your sound card.  so if you
> > > > > > cat the contents of a file or the output of another device
> > > > > > you can use the redirect command,
> > > > > > >, to send that output to /dev/dsp and you'll likely hear
> > > > > > >something.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > for example i just did this command:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sudo cat audio/HumanAfterAll.wav > /dev/dsp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and i'm now listening to a sort of ringing noisy mess.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > doing:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sudo cat Desktop/americas_logo.png > /dev/dsp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gave me like 15 seconds of whitish noise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if your scanner is a usb scanner, you can find out what
> > > > > > device it is by plugging it in and running this command in
> > > > > > a terminal:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > dmesg | tail
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just did it with a wireless mouse device and got this
> > > > > > info:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [17792.582043] usb 3-2: new low speed USB device using
> > > > > > uhci_hcd and address 2
> > > > > > [17792.746260] usb 3-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1
> > > > > > choice [17792.781655] input: Wireless Mouse Wireless Mouse
> > > > > > as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:10.1/usb3/3-2/3-2:1.0/input/input6
> > > > > > [17792.781866] generic-usb 0003:05FE:0011.0002:
> > > > > > input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Wireless Mouse Wireless
> > > > > > Mouse] on usb-0000:00:10.1-2/input0
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i searched around my /dev directory and found this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /dev/bus/usb/003/002
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I take that as usb3-2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > your machine might be different, but the usb scanner should
> > > > > > come up as a device somewhere in /dev/bus/usb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so then you could have a terminal open, run the cat command
> > > > > > and then control your scanner with whatever software you
> > > > > > have on your computer to scan images or something like that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > its not very elegant, but you might get some noise out of
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2010/11/11 João Mário <[email protected]>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:45:13 +0000
> > > > > >> Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > On 11/11/2010 11:29 PM, esphera wrote:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Just wondering that you might understand me wrong the
> > > > > >> > > previous post. I want to know how can I make a
> > > > > >> > > scanner's input data, transformed into sound?
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > I had some advices such as "hack the drivers" or "you
> > > > > >> > > can do it with puredata"
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > but I would really like to know how?
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > thanks very much
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > p.s.: I already use arss and enscribe software. but I
> > > > > >> > > want hardware stuff.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't think you'll be able to just do it with pure
> > > > > >> > hardware. Every scanner has a commmunication protocol,
> > > > > >> > even old-fashioned parallel port scanners. You need at
> > > > > >> > least something like an Arduino to send the commands the
> > > > > >> > scanner is listening for to start it scanning.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Which isn't really related to pure:dyne...
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > - Rob.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > ---
> > > > > >> > [email protected]
> > > > > >> > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> > > > > >> > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It certainly isn't related to p:d but I thought that p:d
> > > > > >> community would fit in this kind of project... so I ask for
> > > > > >> opinion
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> @grant centauri - what those commands do?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ---
> > > > > >> [email protected]
> > > > > >> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> > > > > >> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > yes it's exactly that! :) like arss or enscribe (maybe this
> > > > software can be taken as study?..)
> > > > I don't know as I'm from image and type cult rather than
> > > > programming. I do have a strong and growing interest in
> > > > electronics and programming thanks to puredyne! and I would
> > > > like very much to see this work as a kind of instrument with
> > > > some controls over the speed of scan light or sensitivity... I
> > > > want to go that way if you read me. probably with pd and some
> > > > midi controllers?
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> > > > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> > > >
> >
> > hey man thanks for your time!
> >
> > you really did touch the G point, the question of how data is mapped
> > has been revolving on my head. But then I think that the image as
> > spectogram is nice for what i'm looking for because I want to
> > actually see what kind of imagery makes what kind of sound (so that
> > my images production affects sound production and viceversa) but
> > then urges another question: I think the synthesis type is the
> > thing that i'm missing in understanding. arss uses both sine and
> > noise synthesis. enscribe i'm not sure. I got in touch with the
> > creator and all he said to me was :
> >
> > "A lot more time and energy has gone into ARSS, I think they use
> > additive synthesis instead of iFFT, so the architectures are
> > completely different. enscribe was never intended for synthesis,
> > just as a way to hide images inside songs.
> >
> > http://photosounder.com/examples.php also looks pretty cool, and
> > there's a free demo."
> >
> > What I said to him was that I like arss's the most for the kind of
> > clean sound results that it produced, but enscribe offers color
> > mapping related to panning and stuff, and that a fusion of both
> > would be perfect. But, I can't do it and i don't have the time to
> > study about it.
> >
> > So concluding this tought, I want to know what kind of synthesis is
> > more "pure" to what i'm looking for as a kind of synesthesia thing
> > you see?
> >
> > Thanks a lot one more time for your time! I really expect more
> > ideas :)
> >
> > ---
> > [email protected]
> > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> >

hey man!

the thing is i'm in europe... portugal to be precise...
and if you could explain me better that granular synthesis thing...
cause i'm a bit noob on sound matters...

also I thought of getting the code of the image file (like... some sort
of code that builds the image file ?) and then bringin' that code to a
matrix of kind of... groove pattern for vinyl cut you know... I
dunno... just guessing

---
[email protected]
http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne

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