On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:32:51 -0600 grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote:
> i checked out photosounder, it looked pretty awesome. its weird, > while we were discussing this earlier, i essentially thought of the > program arss and was trying to figure out how it would work. you > could essentially store any kind of data as sound, then like play the > sound into a microphone to reproduce what you stored. > > perhaps we should make this some kind of puredyne americas project to > work on. i've been doing some research into granular synthesis and > representations of sound. i think a sort of pixel to grain map > scheme could make a pretty neat instrument. you'd control a matrix > of pixels which would have correlations to various elements of > granular sound. i can actually envision a lot of things you could do > with this, and with granular sound you could essentially have an > endless pallete of timbre/texture... and you could control > traditional musical elements with more basic control over > pitch/envelope/ or whatever... > > anyways, its definitely a possibility, it just depends on the way you > want to go i guess. i'm not sure if we have the resources to make > something quickly, but i do believe the tools are there to do what > you want to do, and there are various ways you could realize a link > between visual and audible data. > > -grant > > 2010/11/13 João Mário <[email protected]> > > > On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:25:56 -0600 > > grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > okay, i think i have a better idea now of what you are going > > > for. i can't really offer a quick solution, but it will likely > > > involve programming. I think you're better off trying to start > > > with a web cam or something like that as an input device. I know > > > that processing has libraries for accessing camera devices, I'm > > > sure Pd probably does too... then its a matter of mapping > > > graphical data to sound. > > > > > > it seems like the software you're looking at, arss amd enscribe > > > are mapping visual data to audio frequency data. each one > > > probably uses a different technique and method of mapping to get > > > the sounds out of an image. here's what enscribe does: > > > > > > The scanlines of the input image are converted into frequency > > > components and > > > > then using an inverse Fast Fourier Transform, are converted into > > > > sound. The left side of the image is the low frequency end, and > > > > the right is the high end, up to just under the Nyquist limit > > > > if you want it. > > > > > > > > > > there's a whole world out there of people doing this kind of > > > stuff, I just found this: > > > > > > I think any discussion of "transcoding" image (or other data) into > > > sound has to take into account that such mapping is purely > > > subjective. The artistry is in finding meaningful transpositions > > > from one medium to another. Using "raw" data as sample values is > > > certainly one way, and using an image as spectrographic values > > > for resynthesis is certainly another. There are certainly enough > > > softwares out there that do either trick, and those sounds are > > > familiar to us from the many many artists who have used those > > > softs already (to death in some cases). Dig a little deeper and > > > decide for yourself the relationship of pixel to sample instead > > > of relying on other people's ready-mades and you might be on to > > > something new. > > > > > > Basically, any image source used as a sound source is a matter of > > > deciding how the data gets mapped. A good place to start would > > > probably be for you to design a mapping method for static images > > > that makes sounds you like, and then explore various images and > > > patterns that produce sound. you could likely do this in Pd, but > > > i'm not familiar enough with it to know how. > > > > > > I know in the old days people used to 'animate' sound. Films had > > > the audio soundtrack actually printed on them as a waveform and a > > > photo sensor would read that data to reproduce audio > > > electronically. Some animators started drawing their own > > > patterns of light and dark in order to synthesize sound directly > > > onto film. > > > > > > I don't want to discourage your idea, i do think it is an > > > interesting one... i'm imagining a scanner that you can set > > > different images on to get different sounds, or control the speed > > > and light sensitivity as you said... it could be pretty neat. > > > but i think it might be an uphill battle, and there's probably > > > other ways you could put your graphical background to work making > > > digital sound. > > > > > > -grant > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010/11/12 João Mário <[email protected]> > > > > > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:50:26 -0600 > > > > grant centauri <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > i imagine what you really want to do is be able to somehow map > > > > > data coming in from the scanner to some sort of musical or > > > > > more interesting sound. use scanner data as control data for > > > > > some audio generator. > > > > > > > > > > i'm not sure how you'd manage that... i'm guessing it is > > > > > possible with some level of programming knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > if that is the case let me know, then we can maybe attack > > > > > this at a different angle. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:23 PM, grant centauri > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > cat simply dumps the output of one thing into the standard > > > > > > output. if you type cat readme.txt you'll get the whole > > > > > > text of the readme file pumped out into your terminal > > > > > > screen. if you do cat mysong.mp3 you'll get a bunch of > > > > > > gobbledygook flooding your terminal. > > > > > > > > > > > > /dev/dsp is the device name of your sound card. so if you > > > > > > cat the contents of a file or the output of another device > > > > > > you can use the redirect command, > > > > > > >, to send that output to /dev/dsp and you'll likely hear > > > > > > >something. > > > > > > > > > > > > for example i just did this command: > > > > > > > > > > > > sudo cat audio/HumanAfterAll.wav > /dev/dsp > > > > > > > > > > > > and i'm now listening to a sort of ringing noisy mess. > > > > > > > > > > > > doing: > > > > > > > > > > > > sudo cat Desktop/americas_logo.png > /dev/dsp > > > > > > > > > > > > gave me like 15 seconds of whitish noise. > > > > > > > > > > > > if your scanner is a usb scanner, you can find out what > > > > > > device it is by plugging it in and running this command in > > > > > > a terminal: > > > > > > > > > > > > dmesg | tail > > > > > > > > > > > > I just did it with a wireless mouse device and got this > > > > > > info: > > > > > > > > > > > > [17792.582043] usb 3-2: new low speed USB device using > > > > > > uhci_hcd and address 2 > > > > > > [17792.746260] usb 3-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 > > > > > > choice [17792.781655] input: Wireless Mouse Wireless Mouse > > > > > > as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:10.1/usb3/3-2/3-2:1.0/input/input6 > > > > > > [17792.781866] generic-usb 0003:05FE:0011.0002: > > > > > > input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Wireless Mouse Wireless > > > > > > Mouse] on usb-0000:00:10.1-2/input0 > > > > > > > > > > > > i searched around my /dev directory and found this: > > > > > > > > > > > > /dev/bus/usb/003/002 > > > > > > > > > > > > I take that as usb3-2 > > > > > > > > > > > > your machine might be different, but the usb scanner should > > > > > > come up as a device somewhere in /dev/bus/usb > > > > > > > > > > > > so then you could have a terminal open, run the cat command > > > > > > and then control your scanner with whatever software you > > > > > > have on your computer to scan images or something like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > its not very elegant, but you might get some noise out of > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010/11/11 João Mário <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:45:13 +0000 > > > > > >> Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On 11/11/2010 11:29 PM, esphera wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Just wondering that you might understand me wrong the > > > > > >> > > previous post. I want to know how can I make a > > > > > >> > > scanner's input data, transformed into sound? > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > I had some advices such as "hack the drivers" or "you > > > > > >> > > can do it with puredata" > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > but I would really like to know how? > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > thanks very much > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > p.s.: I already use arss and enscribe software. but I > > > > > >> > > want hardware stuff. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I don't think you'll be able to just do it with pure > > > > > >> > hardware. Every scanner has a commmunication protocol, > > > > > >> > even old-fashioned parallel port scanners. You need at > > > > > >> > least something like an Arduino to send the commands the > > > > > >> > scanner is listening for to start it scanning. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Which isn't really related to pure:dyne... > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > - Rob. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > --- > > > > > >> > [email protected] > > > > > >> > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > > > > >> > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It certainly isn't related to p:d but I thought that p:d > > > > > >> community would fit in this kind of project... so I ask for > > > > > >> opinion > > > > > >> > > > > > >> @grant centauri - what those commands do? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > >> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > > > > >> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes it's exactly that! :) like arss or enscribe (maybe this > > > > software can be taken as study?..) > > > > I don't know as I'm from image and type cult rather than > > > > programming. I do have a strong and growing interest in > > > > electronics and programming thanks to puredyne! and I would > > > > like very much to see this work as a kind of instrument with > > > > some controls over the speed of scan light or sensitivity... I > > > > want to go that way if you read me. probably with pd and some > > > > midi controllers? > > > > > > > > --- > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > > > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > > > > > > > hey man thanks for your time! > > > > you really did touch the G point, the question of how data is mapped > > has been revolving on my head. But then I think that the image as > > spectogram is nice for what i'm looking for because I want to > > actually see what kind of imagery makes what kind of sound (so that > > my images production affects sound production and viceversa) but > > then urges another question: I think the synthesis type is the > > thing that i'm missing in understanding. arss uses both sine and > > noise synthesis. enscribe i'm not sure. I got in touch with the > > creator and all he said to me was : > > > > "A lot more time and energy has gone into ARSS, I think they use > > additive synthesis instead of iFFT, so the architectures are > > completely different. enscribe was never intended for synthesis, > > just as a way to hide images inside songs. > > > > http://photosounder.com/examples.php also looks pretty cool, and > > there's a free demo." > > > > What I said to him was that I like arss's the most for the kind of > > clean sound results that it produced, but enscribe offers color > > mapping related to panning and stuff, and that a fusion of both > > would be perfect. But, I can't do it and i don't have the time to > > study about it. > > > > So concluding this tought, I want to know what kind of synthesis is > > more "pure" to what i'm looking for as a kind of synesthesia thing > > you see? > > > > Thanks a lot one more time for your time! I really expect more > > ideas :) > > > > --- > > [email protected] > > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne > > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne > > hey man! the thing is i'm in europe... portugal to be precise... and if you could explain me better that granular synthesis thing... cause i'm a bit noob on sound matters... also I thought of getting the code of the image file (like... some sort of code that builds the image file ?) and then bringin' that code to a matrix of kind of... groove pattern for vinyl cut you know... I dunno... just guessing --- [email protected] http://identi.ca/group/puredyne irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
