John, thanks for writing and sharing your Zero-to-Sixty. I read the whole thing, and it makes Authkit look much easier to integrate and get working than what the rumors seem to indicate I look forward to reading part 3.
My one suggestion: your blog-format code windows are narrow and they don't wrap lines. It looks like they're styled such that no matter how wide I drag my browser window, they're still the same width, too. Changing text size barely gets a few more characters visible in a line, with many of the longer lines still invisible. Scrolling (sometimes a page or more) down in the browser window in order to grab a horizontal scrollbar at the foot of a code window kind of messes with the continuity of the reading. Maybe you could style those code sections differently or make the middle column of your blog proportional to window width? Eric On Apr 16, 8:39 am, johnnyice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just finished setting up Pylons 0.9.6 with AuthKit and SQLAlchemy > 0.4.4. I decided to write a tutorial that will hopefully serve to > help others and avoid the same hair pulling that I went through. =) > > Hopefully it makes sense, as most of the files are the FULL file, not > snippets. Let me know what you guys think or if you have any > questions. > > http://www.janisb.com/blog/2008/04/zero-to-60-with-pylons-in-just-min... > > Hope that helps! > > John > > On Mar 29, 8:36 pm, "Mike Orr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 4:23 PM, mdoudoroff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Unfortunately, I can confirm that theAuthKitdocumentation situation > > > is appalling. I spent hours sifting through the obsolete "Pylonsbook" > > > chapters, their comments, the source code, and the cookbook documents > > > before gettingAuthKitrunning. The enraging thing is that afterwards > > > I realized that setting upAuthKitis actually quite easy! There's > > > relatively little to it! Yet the documentation turns it into this > > > monolithic, impenetrable thing. This is NO WAY to attract new users > > > (and eventual contributors) toPylons! Fundamental stuff like this has > > > to be fundamentally EASY, or people are going to look elsewhere. > > > We need somebody who has usedAuthKitto write the simple HOWTOs that > > people are asking for. It sounds like you're qualified, if you're > > willing. The reason documentation is slow is that fewer people build > > authenticated sites than use SQLAlchemy/Genshi/forms, so there are a > > fewer number of people qualified to write auth documentation and to > > compare alternative auth libraries. > > > The two chapters are part of a book that aims to be a complete > > reference ofPylonsprogramming, scaling to large sites. I guess they > > don't work as well outside that context. The complete book draft is > > supposedly going to be finished this week, so hopefully we'll have a > > copy online soon. > > > The fact that James wrote bothAuthKitand the book, and would like to > > see both asPylons' standard, yet he responds to email sporadically > > (sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes a month later), has made it > > difficult to resolve the issues aroundAuthKit. This leaves the rest > > of us in a bit of a take-it-as-is-or-use-something-else situation. > > > > It seems to me thatAuthKitmay have a few warts: > > > > 1) The "one group per user" limitation seems to be irritating people. > > > I don't personally care, because all I need are roles, and I can't > > > help but wonder if the people who are complaining about user groups > > > really need the groups or if they're just confused about the > > > distinction because the documentation is such a disaster. > > > Could be. > > > > 2) Some of the authentication plug-ins may be under-developed. Some > > > people here are saying the OpenID stuff doesn't work very well. I > > > don't know a thing about it, but I see that OpenID is getting pretty > > > pervasive, so it will probably be increasingly critical to would-be > > > Pylonsadopters. > > > OpenID is a new and different kind of authentication system, so I > > don't know if we've figured out the best way to integrate it yet. > > Feedback from those who use OpenID would be helpful. > > > > 3) The options for how log-in screens are presented withAuthKitseem > > > too constricted or inelegant for some people. > > > That may be. > > > > I'm just starting to > > > look into this myself, but I have no opinion, yet. I will say that > > > it's something that should just happen "out of the box" and it should > > > be darn easy to customize. > > > > That several different parties have initiated their own parallel > > > authentication kits forPylonswhile nobody can be bothered to put a > > > few hours into updating and completingAuthKit'sdocumentation is > > > really disconcerting. It does not say thatPylonsis a flexible > > > platform with a wealth of options. It saysPylonsis a fragmentary, > > > incomplete, incoherent platform that can only get you part of the way > > > there. > > > > I'm a refugee from an old python framework--Webware for Python--that was > > > rife with derelict components from the get-go. It just looked > > > terrible. It was embarrassing. There were consequences: the community > > > waned far more than it waxed. I just got serious aboutPylons. I think > > > it does a lot of things right, apparently with much credit due Ian > > > Bicking. I apologize for dropping this rant into this thread, but I > > > want to emphasize how big a problem this is forPylons. > > > I also started with Webware after being disilusioned with monolithic > > Zope. But I didn't like its servlet paradigm, borrowed from Java. Or > > its accessor methods or .camelCase. Webware also named its > > components *Kit, which makes me wishAuthKitwas called something > > else. Quixote seemed much more streamlined and minimalistic so I made > > several sites in that. But when WSGI came along I wanted something > > that was fully WSGI and modular down to the core, andPylonsis the > > only one of those. > > > Pylonsaims to contain the most essential tools but does not make > > arbitrary choices about everything. So it includes Mako but also > > documents Genshi. It includes FormEncode/htmlfill/webhelpers but also > > documents ToscaWidgets and Django newforms. That's because we're not > > convinced that any of these form libraries are the "best" answer, but > > FormEncode/WebHelpers are an unobtrusive set of modular tools, so more > > in keeping with thePylonsphilosophy. Pylonshad built-in database > > support but found it couldn't keep up with the libraries, so it > > dropped that in favor of merely supporting SQLAlchemy in the > > documentation. Pylons0.9.7 offers a default SQLAlchemy model as a > > convenience, but you can take it or leave it. > > > Regarding auth, that has never been seen as a corePylons > > responsibility. If you want a framework with a built-in auth library, > > see TurboGears. Nevertheless we want to support auth in the > > documentation, either withAuthKitalone orAuthKitplus > > alternatives. > > > AsPylonshas partnered with TurboGears over the past six months, each > > has focused on its unique strengths. TG chooses a set of batteries > > for all aspects of web programming. Pylonsfocuses on a small set of > > essential tools, yet the documentation also shows how to integrate > > extra libraries. Generally we choose one library to recommend by > > default, yet try to show how to use the alternatives too, so users > > aren't reinventing the wheel from scratch. That has been one of my > > personal goals, which is why I've worled so much on the sQLAlchemy > > documentation even though SQLAlchemy is not aPylonsdependency. > > > To answer another question in this thread, repoze is a set of > > WSGI-compatible libraries spun off from Zope. It's the most > > exciting contribution from Zope since ZODB, because it allows Zope > > products like Plone and other WSGI apps to be mixed in the same site. > > However, it's all brand new so it hasn't been fully evaluated which > > parts are most useful inPylonsapps. Again, we need feedback from > > people who try repoze.who. > > > AuthKitwas written forPylons and uses thePylonsconfiguration > > system. Nobody has yet evaluated how to integrate repoze.who intoPylons' > > configuration, or whether it's worth it. I've heard praise > > forAuthKit'sauthorization but not for its authentication. Maybe the > > two will be split someday; that was part of my hope for the wiki page, > > that we'd pin down exactly what we need in an authentication system, > > and then make it easier forAuthKitto interoperate with other > > compliant systems. And simultaneously fill the gaps inAuthKit's > > documeentation and features to make it suitable asPylons' first > > recommendation, since it is the only one specifically built forPylons. > > > Nobody has put any feedback on the wiki page yet. :( I renamed it so > > here's the current > > URL:http://wiki.pylonshq.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=11698714 > > > -- > > Mike Orr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. 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