Thanks. I have probably been lucky to not have had the opportunity of having GWT inflicted on any of my projects, but your appreciation of GWT resonates very true -- and with many projects java... the problem probably is that google was constrained to hire too quickly, so after having creamed the python pool they had to succumb to hiring too many java developers ;-!! Anyway, I've always been very wary of any platform where its proponents tend to describe things via tool-based procedures e.g. select menu x in eclipse, then click y (hence my reference to over in another thread to keep those eclipsed guys out of pylons if you want pylons to retain its design integrity).
But GWT is RIA territory, and so not specifically pylons territory. It should be compared to what best RIA options would be for use with pylons? Or, maybe even more specifically, how would other "client code generator" types of toolkits compare -- two that come to mind are pyjamas (from python) and cappuccino (from objective-c) ? On Jan 31, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Michael Bayer wrote: > > I worked briefly with a project that used GWT (we of course ultimately > rewrote the whole thing in pylons) for some portions of a web based > administration tool. The components were incredibly simple table > controls displaying database data. There were two dozen GWT-derived > source files used to generate about four different data views that all > looked nearly alike, multiple compilers and two separate build.xml > files existed to compile the full application (gwt has its own > compiler separate from javac), and there were skeletons, stubs and all > kinds of translation/glue code all over the place. On the view side > there was nothing about these components that you wouldn't have seen > from a perl CGI script 10 years ago - they were just flat tables of > data, no interactivity beyond "previous page/next page". The usage > of GWT was obviously selected out of a vague sense of "doing things > the 'right' way" without the benefit of actual experience in doing > things at all. > > These small table controls took more than a full second to render just > 20 or 30 rows of data, and I assumed that the underlying SQL and > database was the reason. > > Not so at all. Removing the usage of GWT and replacing with a simple > ajax call to a struts action which rendered inline HTML directly from > a jsp page, with all other factors remaining in place including the > same database code and database (remember we're still in java), the > components rendered about 50 times faster. The size of the code base > shrunk by about 24 source files, one less build.xml file, and several > hundred class files (their build process was multiplying the full set > of GWT classes in multiple locations for some reason, which I suspect > was not a GWT-specific issue). > > To see why a straight ajax call to a JSP page to a struts action to > some hibernate code might be 50x faster than a GWT interface to a GWT- > enabled servlet to the same hibernate code, the next time you build a > small GWT application, use firebug to look at the XMLHttpRequest calls > being sent over the wire. The messages are more bloated than > Google's stock price two years ago and more inscrutable than Peter > Norvig's PHD dissertation. > > Remember, the "enterprise" way of thinking is what's brought us the > economic disaster, vast ponzi schemes where everyone looks the other > way, etc. I.e. "seems to work for now so fuck it". > > On Jan 30, 4:04 am, Tycon <[email protected]> wrote: >> I heard that many "enterprise" web applications use tomcat (and >> Google >> Web Toolkit to create the client side javascript code). >> What are the advantages of using a framework like Pylons (or Django, >> Rails, etc) compared to using Java framworks ? >> Why can't the Java framwork be used for non-enterpise web site apps ? >> >> Java has a performance advantage over Python (and Ruby), but I guess >> the down side is that it's not as "agile" for rapid development ? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
