On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 8:55 AM, jerry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> """
> the "enterprise" way of thinking is what's brought us the economic
> disaster, vast ponzi schemes where everyone looks the other way,
> etc.  I.e. "seems to work for now so fuck it".
> """
>
> Bravo, Bravo, and BRAVO!
>
> This is so brilliant that it got to go in the "Zen of Pylons".

I agree.  Fraud isn't just endemic in Wall Street, it also exists in
Software Engineering, and especially in "buzz" technologies.  One of
the dead give aways, is when someone says, "Trust me, I am smarter
than you, and you just don't understand..", that is a huge red flag
for any new technology.
>
> Jerry
>
> On Jan 31, 12:44 pm, Michael Bayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I worked briefly with a project that used GWT (we of course ultimately
>> rewrote the whole thing in pylons) for some portions of a web based
>> administration tool.   The components were incredibly simple table
>> controls displaying database data.   There were two dozen GWT-derived
>> source files used to generate about four different data views that all
>> looked nearly alike, multiple compilers and two separate build.xml
>> files existed to compile the full application (gwt has its own
>> compiler separate from javac), and there were skeletons, stubs and all
>> kinds of translation/glue code all over the place.   On the view side
>> there was nothing about these components that you wouldn't have seen
>> from a perl CGI script 10 years ago - they were just flat tables of
>> data, no interactivity beyond "previous page/next page".   The usage
>> of GWT was obviously selected out of a vague sense of "doing things
>> the 'right' way" without the benefit of actual experience in doing
>> things at all.
>>
>> These small table controls took more than a full second to render just
>> 20 or 30 rows of data, and I assumed that the underlying SQL and
>> database was the reason.
>>
>> Not so at all.   Removing the usage of GWT and replacing with a simple
>> ajax call to a struts action which rendered inline HTML directly from
>> a jsp page, with all other factors remaining in place including the
>> same database code and database (remember we're still in java), the
>> components rendered about 50 times faster.   The size of the code base
>> shrunk by about 24 source files, one less build.xml file, and several
>> hundred class files (their build process was multiplying the full set
>> of GWT classes in multiple locations for some reason, which I suspect
>> was not a GWT-specific issue).
>>
>> To see why a straight ajax call to a JSP page to a struts action to
>> some hibernate code might be 50x faster than a GWT interface to a GWT-
>> enabled servlet to the same hibernate code,  the next time you build a
>> small GWT application, use firebug to look at the XMLHttpRequest calls
>> being sent over the wire.     The messages are more bloated than
>> Google's stock price two years ago and more inscrutable than Peter
>> Norvig's PHD dissertation.
>>
>> Remember, the "enterprise" way of thinking is what's brought us the
>> economic disaster, vast ponzi schemes where everyone looks the other
>> way, etc.  I.e. "seems to work for now so fuck it".
>>
>> On Jan 30, 4:04 am, Tycon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I heard that many "enterprise" web applications use tomcat (and Google
>> > Web Toolkit to create the client side javascript code).
>> > What are the advantages of using a framework like Pylons (or Django,
>> > Rails, etc) compared to using Java framworks ?
>> > Why can't the Java framwork be used for non-enterpise web site apps ?
>>
>> > Java has a performance advantage over Python (and Ruby), but I guess
>> > the down side is that it's not as "agile" for rapid development ?
> >
>



-- 
Cheers,

Noah

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