On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Jonathan Vanasco <[email protected]> wrote: > I spent some time today with Pyramid. It was a bit of a rollercoaster > -- at times I was very excited, at others very stressed. i figured > i'd share my thoughts here for the maintainers. > > 1. on setting up an app, there were no instructions on how to setup > for a postgres 'url' in sqlalchemy ; in fact - there was nothing in > there regarding this setup. i pulled it out of an existing project; > one could probably look at pylons 1.0 (not pyramid) docs. > > 2. i assume this is part of the template designed to show how to do > stuff... however creating the initial 'models' table, with a sample > entry, is misleading and not clear. i'd suggest changing it to > "sample_model" or something that is very clearly not needed for the > application. > > 3. i haven't figured out yet if its possible to handle multiple db > connections in pyramid. in pylons i have "sqlalchemy.write.url" and > "sqlalchemy.read.url" and handle multiple databases due to master/ > slave clustering. in order to get widespread appeal, something like > this needs to be very apparent and easy to do - Rails accomplishes > this in a few lines of configs.
Have you seen the pyramid_sqla package, which includes an appliation template? It addresses these three. > 4. i'm not sold on the MV design. personally, I think it was risky > departing from MVC, which has become the de facto standard and super > familiar for developers across the web. django has had issues selling > people on their MVT , and its just an uphill battle. i'm sure it has > many advantages, i'm just speaking from a 'marketing ' view. When Pylons was created in 2005, every framework had to be "like Rails" and "MVC" in order to succeed. Yet Django became the most-used Python framework in spite of being MV rather than MVC. The main issue for developers is ignorant managers who say "It must be Django" (or Rails/PHP/Java) -- without knowing anything about these technologies, just that these are the popular buzzwords. It's much less common to hear "Must be MVC". For developers who can choose their own framework, again they are swayed more by these Django/Rails/PHP/Java buzzwords than by MVC. So Pyramid's most direct competitor nowadays is Django, not MVC. In 2005 MVC for the web was still a shiny new idea. But in the following six years people used it and discovered its limitations and blogged about it. Namely, that MVC was designed for an environment very different from the web, it fits web applications imperfectly, and people sometimes agonize how to shoehorn their app into the formalities of MVC, which is counterproductive. Anybody who studies MVC will come across these complaints, and will see that the current generation of browsers is going "beyond MVC". That should reassure them that Pyramid isn't being substandard by doing this. > 5. the default application template should really generate a multiple > views & models structure. most people i've worked with strive very > hard to keep the entirety of their models/views from being a single > file. The developers went back and forth on this but in the end went with single modules. > 6. also on the migration point, it would be good to discuss sqlalchemy > reflection. This is also in the pyramid_sqla manual. > The code looks solid, and I understand the rationale behind a lot of > design choices... but from an adoption view, i think there's a lot of > work to be done. Undoubtedly. Now that 1.0 is done and the website is up, it's time for marketing. Pylons always put marketing on the back burner because first we were focused on finishing Pylons 1 and then on finishing Pyramid but now we can focus on marketing more... which would be a good discussion at the PyCon sprint. -- Mike Orr <[email protected]> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en.
