comp.lang.python and thus python-list definitely predate Mailman. In fact, my earliest Python story involves seeing c.l.py creation, browsing for a bit (because who doesn’t love a cool little language that just a handful of enthusiasts are raving about?), and finding it full only of Monty Python jokes. Which of course are great, but why in comp.lang?! Thanks, but I’ll stick with Perl. :)
Anyway, python-list and some of the other early lists I can’t find details on right now were originally hosted on Majorodomo. Given that the Mailman archives only go back to 1999, and Guido (and thus most of the Python development infrastructure) had already moved to CNRI by then, it’s possible that the original Majordomo archives were never migrated into Mailman. I just don’t remember and it would take more archive spelunking than I want to do right now. Possibly Ken Manheimer would remember more details. I kind of doubt those original Majordomo archives have survived the various hosting migrations since then, but maybe they are laying around on mail.python.org some place? -Barry > On Jan 6, 2020, at 06:48, Skip Montanaro <skip.montan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 7:25 PM Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > On 1/1/20 11:22 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > I am looking at the MM2 mailing list creation confirmation messages in my > > personal archives. Both d...@python.org (at 09:49 server local time?) and > > python-dev@python.org (at 14:17) were created on April 19, 1999. I don’t > > remember what happened to dev@ but based on the timeline, I’m retroguessing > > that we created dev@ first, then quickly rethought the name, created > > python-dev@ and retired dev@. > > Just to provide some closure here, the pipermail archive for python-dev > goes back to April 21, 1999. There is one, possibly spurious message > from some other list dated March 16, 1995 from Linus Torvalds. > > Aside from this one message and as far as I can tell, all the other > messages from April 21 forward are in the current Hyperkitty archive. > > (Apologies for letting this drop for a couple days.) > > I'm still befuddled. When I look at the MM2 archive for python-list, it also > only goes back to Feb 1999. Surely I'm missing something. Maybe GNU Mailman > itself isn't much older than 1999. Perhaps python-dev content was embedded in > python-list/comp.lang.python before Apr 1999, but we were certainly > discussing development of and in Python well before 1999. Where did all the > archives go? Maybe it's just my failing memory. I can accept that. If you > look at the filenames of the earliest python-list and python-dev messages in > the archives: > > • New (?) suggestion to solve "assignment-in-while" desire (python-list > - Feb 1999 - 005101.html) > • ZServer 1.0b1: spurious colon in HTTP response line (python-dev - Apr > 1999 - 095103.html) > you get the impression that there must have been earlier messages. Wouldn't > new lists simply start with message 000000.html by default? The first message > in the csv mailing list is > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/csv/2003-January/000000.html. > > Perhaps what I really pine for are comp.lang.python archives? GMane is gone. > Google Groups seems to have nothing. They must be someplace. I've heard the > Internet never forgets. Even if my personal quest (old messages about > Rattlesnake and other alternative virtual machine projects) fails to bear > fruit, I suspect there is value in maintaining the history of the Python > language. > > Thx again... > > Skip >
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