Thanks all. I just pinged Ken and am going to rummage around mail.python.org for a bit.
Skip On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:10 PM Barry Warsaw <ba...@python.org> wrote: > comp.lang.python and thus python-list definitely predate Mailman. In > fact, my earliest Python story involves seeing c.l.py creation, browsing > for a bit (because who doesn’t love a cool little language that just a > handful of enthusiasts are raving about?), and finding it full only of > Monty Python jokes. Which of course are great, but why in comp.lang?! > Thanks, but I’ll stick with Perl. :) > > Anyway, python-list and some of the other early lists I can’t find details > on right now were originally hosted on Majorodomo. Given that the Mailman > archives only go back to 1999, and Guido (and thus most of the Python > development infrastructure) had already moved to CNRI by then, it’s > possible that the original Majordomo archives were never migrated into > Mailman. I just don’t remember and it would take more archive spelunking > than I want to do right now. Possibly Ken Manheimer would remember more > details. > > I kind of doubt those original Majordomo archives have survived the > various hosting migrations since then, but maybe they are laying around on > mail.python.org some place? > > -Barry > > > On Jan 6, 2020, at 06:48, Skip Montanaro <skip.montan...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 7:25 PM Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > > On 1/1/20 11:22 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > I am looking at the MM2 mailing list creation confirmation messages in > my personal archives. Both d...@python.org (at 09:49 server local time?) > and python-dev@python.org (at 14:17) were created on April 19, 1999. I > don’t remember what happened to dev@ but based on the timeline, I’m > retroguessing that we created dev@ first, then quickly rethought the > name, created python-dev@ and retired dev@. > > > > Just to provide some closure here, the pipermail archive for python-dev > > goes back to April 21, 1999. There is one, possibly spurious message > > from some other list dated March 16, 1995 from Linus Torvalds. > > > > Aside from this one message and as far as I can tell, all the other > > messages from April 21 forward are in the current Hyperkitty archive. > > > > (Apologies for letting this drop for a couple days.) > > > > I'm still befuddled. When I look at the MM2 archive for python-list, it > also only goes back to Feb 1999. Surely I'm missing something. Maybe GNU > Mailman itself isn't much older than 1999. Perhaps python-dev content was > embedded in python-list/comp.lang.python before Apr 1999, but we were > certainly discussing development of and in Python well before 1999. Where > did all the archives go? Maybe it's just my failing memory. I can accept > that. If you look at the filenames of the earliest python-list and > python-dev messages in the archives: > > > > • New (?) suggestion to solve "assignment-in-while" desire > (python-list - Feb 1999 - 005101.html) > > • ZServer 1.0b1: spurious colon in HTTP response line (python-dev > - Apr 1999 - 095103.html) > > you get the impression that there must have been earlier messages. > Wouldn't new lists simply start with message 000000.html by default? The > first message in the csv mailing list is > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/csv/2003-January/000000.html. > > > > Perhaps what I really pine for are comp.lang.python archives? GMane is > gone. Google Groups seems to have nothing. They must be someplace. I've > heard the Internet never forgets. Even if my personal quest (old messages > about Rattlesnake and other alternative virtual machine projects) fails to > bear fruit, I suspect there is value in maintaining the history of the > Python language. > > > > Thx again... > > > > Skip > > > >
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