Okay, I think your evidence can then be discounted. Really, any app that
relies on the publicly installed Python runs a serious risk of breaking
when that Python gets updated, regardless of whether the ABI changes or not.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 2:46 AM Baptiste Carvello <
devel2...@baptiste-carvello.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le 18/06/2021 à 21:00, Guido van Rossum a écrit :
> > Can you elaborate on that use case? Which two applications are you
> > thinking of, and what was your goal in driving them? This sounds
> > interesting but I haven’t encountered this myself.
>
> Well, I'm not sure the case I was thinking of is still relevant to
> anything: that was plotting 3D crystal models using crystallography
> library CCTBX [1] and visualization application Mayavi [2], some 15-20
> years ago. BTW, I misremembered a bit: only CCTBX insisted on using a
> vendored python ("libtbx.python"), Mayavi used the system python.
> Anyway, it was more pain to make Mayavi use libtbx.python, than to make
> CCTBX work with the system python.
>
> Also, I must admit that even applications embedding the system python
> can have some limitations. For example, GIMP and GDB can execute python
> scripts, but their API can't be "imported" from the outside. Which means
> no arguments passed to the script over the command line ("sys.argv"), no
> venvs, no REPL. But at least you can install additional packages (pip /
> distro package manager) and limitations can be more or less hacked
> around. For a sophisticated example, the debugger extension Voltron [3]
> provides REPL access to GDB objects over a client-server connexion.
>
> Cheers,
> Baptiste
>
> [1] https://cci.lbl.gov/docs/cctbx/
> [2] https://docs.enthought.com/mayavi/mayavi/
> [3] https://github.com/snare/voltron
>
> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 09:44 Baptiste Carvello
> > <devel2...@baptiste-carvello.net
> > <mailto:devel2...@baptiste-carvello.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Le 18/06/2021 à 08:50, Paul Moore a écrit :
> > >
> > > IMO it doesn't. However for certain applications (the sort of
> thing I
> > > was referring to) - where the user is writing their own scripts and
> > > the embedding API is used merely to expose an interface to the
> Python
> > > language, dynamically linking to whatever version of Python the
> user
> > > has installed can be precisely the right thing to do - the user
> gets
> > > access to the version of the language they expect, the installed
> > > packages they expect to see, etc.
> >
> > As a user, I second this. When trying to drive applications from the
> > outside (as opposed to extending them through plugins), it is
> annoying
> > when two applications won't work together because each one insists on
> > using its own vendored python.
> >
> > Of course, there are often real blockers, such as incompatible event
> > loops. But not always…
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Baptiste
> > _______________________________________________
> > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> > <mailto:python-dev@python.org>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> > <mailto:python-dev-le...@python.org>
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> >
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PPKL7466BIG6DPCUIJURLE5ZGFNHBNSM/
> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> > --
> > --Guido (mobile)
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KP3SE6UWSV3VDCJOWCXUZIBPDWFJHRLU/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
_______________________________________________
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GC6PMZP3CI5TAZTXJ67GGEUDRZ4IZ7OJ/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
