Hi folks, moderator here. I’m calling it for this discussion. No further discussion is called for, IMO, although I’m sure Brett and I would be happy to be overridden by private request.
Stephen, thank for providing an excellent summary post on which to lay this thread to rest :) :) best, --titus > On Feb 15, 2020, at 7:57 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull > <turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: > > All: If you're not interested in the back and forth, read my parallel > post with a different subject. > > Soni L. writes: > >> I'm just gonna say learn rust since you actively refuse to accept >> my explanation of rust traits. don't reply again until you've >> learned rust. > > OK, done. > >> you don't want me to be rude > > I don't actually care (cf. http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html), > except that we've all agreed to the Code of Conduct, and I hate to see > folks ignored, or worse, banned, for non-conformance. > >> but when I literally explain rust traits > > So far, from what you've written, they seemed to be what in Python I > would call "zope.interface interfaces." And in fact, both you and the > 3 Rust-specific sources cited below emphasize this aspect of traits. > Sadly, you did a very poor job of explaining what Rust traits are, and > their advantages over strait. Possibly because there aren't any > advantages that aren't strait implementation details. At least, I > can't find any. > >> you throw me an "that's not traits" > > No, I'm throwing you an "I don't understand what you want." I was not > going to say "they're not traits" until I understood them. I told you > what I understood them to be *from your descriptions*, which turned out > to be incomplete in rather important ways. > > Now that I understand them better, they do seem to be traits à la > Schärli et al., except that arbitrarily nested traits are allowed in > Rust, and Rust allows unimplemented methods. (This is not a > restriction in Schärli et al's version of traits: the implementation > of a trait method can simply call a method provided by the class > incorporating the trait.) > > In the TOSWidget example, as I understand it, in Rust: > > 1. In the trivial case where exactly one of TOSWidget, Pack, and > Place implements 'config', you get that implementation, and > any code that's not happy with that is incorrect. > 2. In the case TOSWidget implements 'config', and Pack or Place or > both implements it, you get TOSWidget's implementation, but > anything expecting Pack or Place behavior will not get it, and is > incorrect. > 3. If both Pack and Place implement 'config', but TOSWidget does not, > you get a compile-time error. > > I still don't understand your comment implying that the fact that > > something that expects Place behavior will get Pack behavior from > TOSWidget > > means strait is inferior to Rust's version. I don't see how Rust can > do better that that -- any code that expects Place behavior from the 6 > methods defined in TOSWidget is just plain incorrect code in Rust as > well as in strait. I guess you're implicitly appealing to Rust's UFCS > (universal function call syntax)? That's kind of unfair: it should be > easy to implement a UFCS for strait traits, although it might need a > clumsy syntax. As pointed out in Rust documentation and bug reports, > UFCS is only rarely needed, so clumsy syntax is not such a problem. > >> "and fuck you for ..." > > Not at all. I was mostly inviting you to correct my understanding by > explaining the details of Rust's implementation and pointing out where > it differs. I gather you aren't interested in trying, but I'm always > happy to help. > >> "... trying to get me to think." > > I put 2 hours into composing that post, and another 2 into this one. > If that's your definition of "refusing to think," you're wrong. > > Good luck, anyway. > > Regards, > _______________________________________________ > Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/CPFW6C6MJTAVQNFUANYITVJM57LCDPNS/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ _______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/GW7OSZPQMQABJ5BPLMFCKQ5CEJDGZXXC/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
