On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 5:33 PM Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > So get PYTHONUTF8 added to the environment activate script. That's a > simple change to venv. And virtualenv, and conda - yes, it need to > happen in multiple places, but that's still easier IMO than proposing > a change to Python's already complex (and slower than many of us would > like) startup process.
I am not sure this idea works fine. Is the activate script always called when venv is used on Windows? When I use venv on Unix, I often just execute .venv/bin/some-script without activating the venv. > > Personally, I do not start out with environments with my beginning students > > -- they really only need one at the early stages. But other instructors do. > > > > Others have to work with a locked down system provided by their employer > > that might be an older version of Python, or need some particular > > configuration that they don't want to override. > > > > And all the examples given here of how to set environment variables and > > shortcuts, etc on Windows is EXACTLY the kind of information I don't want > > to have to provide for my students :-( -- I'm teaching Python, not Windows > > administration. > > So teach Python as it actually is, surely? If you teach people how to > use "Python-with-UTF8-mode", won't they struggle when introduced to > the real world where UTF8 mode isn't set? Won't they assume the > default encoding for open() is UTF-8, and be confused when they are > wrong? Yes, I know your job as an instructor is to omit confusing > details, and UTF8 mode would help with that. I get that. But that's > just one case. > Students may need to learn about encoding at some point. But when they learn "how to read/write file" first time, they don't need to know what encoding is. VSCode, notepad, PyCharm use UTF-8 by default. Students don't need to learn how to use encoding other than UTF-8 until really need it. > And anyway, would you not have to explain how to set UTF-8 mode for > the training environment one way or another anyway? Sure, you may not > have to explain how to set an environment variable. But you have to > explain how to configure an ini file instead. We can add "Enable the UTF-8 mode" checkbox to the installer. And we can have "Enable the UTF-8 mode" tool in the start menu. So students don't need to edit the ini file manually. The problem is; should we recommend to enable UTF-8 mode globally by setting environment variable, or provide a per-site UTF-8 mode setting? > >> > I don't want to recommend env vars and registry for conda and portable > >> > Python users... > > > > and a lot of newbies learning Python for data science are starting out with > > conda as well ... > > So conda could set UTF-8 mode with "conda env --new --utf8". No > changes to core Python interpreter startup needed. > They may not want to promote UTF-8 mode until official Python promote UTF-8 mode. So I think venv should support UTF-8 mode first. > >> I'm not sure what you mean here. Why is this different from (say) > >> PYTHONPATH? How would conda and portable python users configure > >> PYTHONPATH? Why is UTF-8 mode any different? > > > > > > It's not -- using PYTHONPATH is a "bad idea" I never recommend it to > > anyone. It was a nightmare when folks have Python 2 and 3 on the same > > machine, but now, in the age of environments, it's still a really bad idea. > > Sure, PYTHONPATH was just an example. Environment variables are how > you configure Python in many ways. I'm asking why UTF-8 mode is so > special it needs a different configuration mechanism than every other > setting for Python. > Because it solves many real world problem that many Windows users suffer. -- Inada Naoki <songofaca...@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/CXJOASSPLNV4EAE47RNZZ2UEF4TGHE6L/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
