Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> Eric Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > But in the last one, when ORBS listed in the RBL, ORBS was totally in
> > the right. I saw grown men, (admins!) trying to defend the position
> > that by ORBS sending up to 16 messages through their servers a few times
> > a _year_, ORBS was abusing the email system.
>
> You're aware that some machines *which didn't relay* were being tested by
> ORBS as frequently as once a *day*, aren't you? Or are you just going by
> Alan Brown's account of what he does, which tends to be a little...
> sanitized?
Once a day? Doesn't the test take almost a week? It did in my case.
And no, I don't believe anything unless I test it myself. During the last
bruhaha, I reported my own mailer as an open relay, so I could have it
tested. After it was tested, I reported it again, to which ORBS responded
that it had been tested recently, and could not be tested again for 30/60/90
days (I don't remember which). During the original test, I recieved 2 of the
16 or so test messages in my admin box. Considering the ORBS list blocks
between 10 and 30 spams a day, even at my puny corporate site, I don't mind
one bit. (RBL blocks somewhere between 0 and 5 per day)
And, here are the results of my latest test, on the 7th of this month:
------
Database Check - 63.78.39.192
63.78.39.192 is not in the main automated open relay database
------
and, if I try to get it checked again:
------
--> 63.78.39.192 has previously been tested by ORBS and doesn't seem to permit
relay.
------
It seems to me that if ORBS is testing every day, there's some kind of
problem. Why not try to work with them to get the problem fixed, instead
of declaring "nuke the site from orbit" immediately?
> You're also aware that ORBS continues to spam the postmasters of machines
> which have never relayed in their entire existence?
Wasn't aware of that.
> You're also aware that ORBS provides a service to spammers, providing a
> downloadable database of open relays and essentially inviting spammers to
> please use them?
All of which are blocked by ORBS. RBL provides a similar list of
spam-friendly domains, all of which are blocked by RBL. What's your
point?
> That, all by itself, is entirely and completely within
> the domain of spam support services and should get them put directly on
> the RBL. I think it's actually rather inconsistent of the RBL that
> they're *not* on it for doing that, although I can understand the
> political reasons for not doing so given that Alan Brown seems to have an
> endless capacity for duping people like yourself who aren't looking at
> what's actually going on and are buying his stories hook, line, and
> sinker.
Hardly. You've got it completely backwards. I'm looking at my own spam
numbers (that's what going on), and seeing that ORBS is helping much more
than MAPS.
Whatever happened to helping other people make their services better,
rather than declaring all-out war on them and trying to destroy them?
We're misplacing all of the anger that we have for spammers onto ORBS
simply because a few test messages find their way in just like spam,
and declaring war without even thinking it through.
Eric
