Yeah , A fork , for this project , need full time dedication , which non of
us have that time or energy.
Qooxdoo have very good design philosophies , a fork should not deviate from
that , and maintainers need to make sure about that.
I just hope Development process is open and inviting for the community.
And i think developers already abandoned this thread..
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Loren Schlomer <m...@schlomie.com> wrote:
> Agree on all points. Which is why I think a fork may be necessary for
> the longevity of this fantastic product. I really empathize with the
> limitations and restrictions placed on the core team and the
> frustrations that have to follow, but I also understand that 1&1 runs a
> business and to stay in business they have to do things that earn money.
> It almost feels like qooxdoo is a child stuck in the middle of a
> custody battle. Sad story really.
>
> I've thought about taking the first step and creating a fork, but every
> time I do, thorough introspection tells me that I don't really have the
> time or energy outside of my current duties to take on such a task right
> now. That may (and hopefully will) change in the future, but right now
> it's just not possible.
>
> But to your last point, yeah the future of qooxdoo does seem uncertain,
> and for that reason it's not only becoming more difficult to sell it to
> stakeholders, I'm also finding it more difficult to even attempt to
> market it to stakeholders. They read buzzwords like Angular and
> Bootstrap all over the place and have their minds already made up, for
> all intents and purposes -- and I can't really argue with them;
> combined, you can do some pretty cool stuff with Angular and Bootstrap
> without much effort (Angular is a pretty decent framework...) As
> unfortunate as it is, the technical merits of qooxdoo over
> Angular/Ember/Backbone/... just aren't enough anymore - and with
> TypeScript and ECMA6 just around the corner, even less so.
>
>
>
> On 2014-12-05 11:33, d...@cost-savers.net wrote:
> > Hi ls,
> >
> >> One thing to remember,
> >>
> >> Most open source projects are the efforts of people spanning many
> >> miles,
> >> countries (and possibly continents.) Coordinating efforts over a
> >> public
> >> mailing system is very natural.
> >>
> >> Now, I may be entirely wrong on this, and I hope the qooxdoo guys will
> >> correct me... but, I understand that all of the core qooxdoo team is
> >> under one roof at the 1&1 office, communicating primarily face-to-face
> >> and over private corporate email. This may prove far more productive
> >> for their work flow (which I imagine includes more than just qooxdoo
> >> related tasks) than public mailing lists. This is not to say they
> >> couldn't open up their qooxdoo development efforts more, but I imagine
> >> they would need to separate the qooxdoo project from its corporate
> >> sponsorship of 1&1. The decision makers at 1&1 may not be open to
> >> that
> >> idea.
> >
> > The last sentence is probably one of the reasons.
> >
> > The big question is: Why is qooxdoo open source if not with an open
> > thriving community? What is the gain for 1&1? What is the gain when
> > the spread is extremely limited? Why is 1&1 spending time on the
> > mailing list at all? Why not use that time for internal income
> > bringing projects? Maybe it is the internal battle we see between 1&1
> > management, who might want the developers to focus on income bringing
> > tasks, while the core team might want to be recognized for what they
> > do by open source. None of it is achieved now:
> >
> > 1. almost no help or feedback from the community
> > 2. less focus on internal projects -> less invoicing
> > 3. small community -> almost no recognition to developers or 1&1
> >
> > As a corporate manager it is a headless decision without point not
> > using the community when it is open source.
> >
> >> Yes, qooxdoo is an open source project with every sense of the phrase,
> >> yes it can be forked and turned into something more what you expect an
> >> open source project to be, but since the core qooxdoo team earns their
> >> living developing for 1&1, the decision to make qooxdoo development
> >> cycles more open may currently be beyond the core developers'
> >> capabilities.
> >
> > For sure an internal battle based on misunderstanding and lack of
> > knowledge and understanding of how a community can contribute to their
> > own purposes as well.
> >
> >> Just something to remember when forming opinions on the state of
> >> qooxdoo
> >> development.
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm just super glad and happy to have what we have. :)
> >
> > We too, but definitively worried about the future as qooxdoo is
> > lagging behind in too many areas now!
> >
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> >> -ls
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2014-12-05 09:31, Phyo Arkar wrote:
> >>> Yes , exactly.
> >>> For example , Rethinkdb, their whole development process is very Open
> >>> , everything is on mailing list + github that i can follow every
> >>> after
> >>> 3 months of not reading mailing list.
> >>>
> >>> If qooxdoo is that open , many good things will happen.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:00 PM, John Spackman
> >>> <john-li...@zenesis.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Martin & Andreas
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting , I am now very curious abot followings.
> >>>>
> >>>> * Thats means , this can be themed using CSS? (Like Bootstrap
> >>>> CSS?)
> >>>> * How about Layout system , will layout systems of qooxdoo will
> >>>> kept there ? Templating? Can we mix with other template systems
> >>>> (Bootstrap Templates , Zurb Foundation) ?
> >>>> * Will it be easier to mix with other JS?
> >>>>
> >>>> We are happy with our agile approach and the intermediate results
> >>>> while addressing specific challenges of the website-oriented
> >>>> projects. Thus we like to share this good news, well-aware that many
> >>>> of you won’t be able to benefit from this experimental code base
> >>>> any time soon.
> >>>
> >>> I find Phyo’s questions above really interesting and relevant, but I
> >>> can’t help thinking that if the dev team’s internal discussions
> >>> were on an open mailing list we’d be much more up to speed already,
> >>> without needing you guys to write a big article(s) with all the
> >>> explanations, justification, example code, etc that a major new
> >>> product would require.
> >>>
> >>> IMHO having an open dev-only mailing list could be constructive and
> >>> time saving for you, as well as stimulating for us and the project’s
> >>> public face.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>> qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel [2]
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
> >>
> >>
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>
>
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