Levering engine across worked to some extent but still not as much clearance as I wanted at pulley end. I would rather have it close at gearbox end - one reason being I was hoping to fit a timing ring to crank pulley so I could play with efi at some point (although block is an efi block flywheel is not an efi one).
With engine levered across I could just remove alternator belt. Belt was 11.9mm * 675 cogged. It looks rather wide on pulley so I have ordered a 10mm wide belt which is width vast majority of suppliers specify for XR2. I checked the V profile of crank and alternator pulleys and an RS one and they are same.The pulley with unequal flanges has a smaller working diameter so maybe it was used in configurations where belt fitting was particularly tight. Anyway I decided to remove all engine mounts and check them because I could see the engine top mount insulator rubber was getting well distorted when engine was levered across. The gearbox cradle front rubber mount was really out of shape - it had sheared to a nice parallelogram shape despite being inside the standard metal cup. The rear mount looked fine. Both cradle rubbers seem to be a standard Ford Fiesta part 89FB6038FA. In saloon build manual it says that diesel rubber Ford part 1661786 is recommended for engine power 120hp and above so these maybe a better option. Anyone know if these fit in Fiesta metal cups? - on the Ford refs I checked it looks like these rubbers were used on other diesel models but not Fiesta diesel? Also what is the function of the J shaped plate fitted over rear cradle mount? (this is an XR2 cradle). I think the lower mounts take most of the load but when they start giving way the top mount is loaded up more than it should be. The rubber in my top insulator mount is not torn but pretty soft. As it's now out I thought may as well replace but AFAIK new insulators are no longer available. There is probably somewhere that can rebush these but I haven't come across them yet. I know SB Parts do exchange XR2 units but the Quantum ones have been modded from standard so probably not good for exchange. New upgraded mounts are available (SB, Vibra .) - just need to mod the bottom leg as per QSC. I noticed looking at Ford parts diagram the Fiesta Mk2 diesel insulator looks like a sturdier design (M12 thru bolt rather than M10 studs bonded on sides of rubber) - anyone tried one? John On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 10:45:59 UTC+1 Darren Siepka wrote: > The sigma were used in focus and fiesta until fairly recently, available > on 1.25, 1.4 ,1.6 and 1.7 (only in the puma) > Iirc when they appeared in the pumas they were called the zetec se , the > Yamaha designed engines. > They aren't the best(can't rebuild the bottom end as there are no pins in > the bearing caps) , but they are available . > The 1.5 and 1.6 ecoboost blocks are actually almost identical, only having > direct injection heads instead of the port injection. > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, 10:37 Jim Hearne, <j...@quantums.info> wrote: > >> Yes, good point, the Mk1 was only 4 speed. >> I did a 5 speed conversion on a Mk1 Fiesta before there were kits >> available. >> It only needed a small modification to the side of the engine bay to >> clear the 5th gear end of the gearbox. >> But, the bigger issue was that the Mk1 Fiesta tie bar on the suspension >> went straight under the 5th gear housing on the gearbox. >> I ended up buying a very expensive Ford Motorsport kit which lowered the >> front tie bar mounting but also came with longer adjustable tie bars. >> I heated up the tie bar and put a double bend in it to clear the end of >> the gearbox and also made an offset front mount bracket. >> No idea what it did to the suspension geometry but it worked. >> >> Is the sigma the Zetec-S or is it the later engine based on the CVH ? >> I’m not up on my later engines apart from the ECO-Boost (now seeming know >> as the ECO-Boom because of a tendency of blowing up) >> >> Jim >> >> >> *From:* Darren Siepka >> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2023 10:17 AM >> *To:* quantu...@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2 >> >> "Also, remember the saloon was originally based on the Mk1 Fiesta which >> had the crossflow engine, no CVH’s on the Mk1 so it may have been something >> to do with that as well. >> " >> >> Another point was the MK1 fiesta only had 4spd gearboxes which are >> narrower. >> I recall there was a kit that cut the chassis rails on a MK1 fiesta to >> fit a 5spd gearbox in, something we can't use. >> >> With an auto box ( CVT or the escort one)in the saloon it is even tighter >> ! >> I hope the sigma and auto box from a Mk7 fiesta I have bought for my >> saloon will have more room this time. >> >> Darren >> >> On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, 09:10 Jim Hearne, <j...@quantums.info> wrote: >> >>> I would guess they were trying to keep the clearance under the wheel >>> arches for the wheels >>> Also, remember the saloon was originally based on the Mk1 Fiesta which >>> had the crossflow engine, no CVH’s on the Mk1 so it may have been something >>> to do with that as well. >>> >>> The problem with the Zetecs is they have the flat belt pulleys instead >>> off the V belt, this makes the engines a cm or more wider. >>> There have been several ways people have put a Zetec in the saloon. >>> 1. Solid engine mounts so the engine and gearbox can’t move, somebody >>> did this, maybe only for a track car. >>> 2. Cut away the chassis rail, really not recommended but again has been >>> done. >>> 3. Fit a CVH water pump (which runs off the cam belt instead of the >>> auxiliary belt) to the Zetec and convert the alternator and crank pulley to >>> CVH V belt versions. >>> 4. Remove the guts from the Zetec pump and turn it into a outlet pipe >>> only, then fit an electric water pump above the alternator. >>> >>> I did the electric water pump version on my saloon. >>> >>> As long as it doesn’t cut through the box section or is too close to the >>> edge, one tidy round hole probably wont cause too many issues as the forces >>> will go round it. >>> Something hacked out by chain drilling (seen that) is somewhat different. >>> But will it help ?, you will still need to lower the engine to get the >>> pulley off so you might as well remove the top engine mount and lower that >>> end of the engine down, it can normally be done without having to >>> disconnect any pipes or exhaust etc. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* listsub3 >>> *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2023 10:57 PM >>> *To:* quantu...@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2 >>> >>> Thanks Jim >>> I will try shifting engine over by slackening fasteniings. >>> I don't know why Quantum did not make the engine bay a bit wider in >>> these tight areas! >>> The engine block is actually a bored/linered 1.6 efi not Sierra. >>> Originally I was going to replace this cvh engine with a 2.0 blacktop >>> but the car had other more urgent issues and I don't have the zetec motor >>> any longer. I seem to remember when I measured up the zetec it would have >>> had same clearance issues. I know you have done zetec swaps - did you have >>> to cut any bodywork? >>> I have been tempted to cut a hole in wing just big enough to access the >>> crank nut with a socket (which currently is not possible without moving >>> engine). Probably not a good idea without at least a removeable >>> strengthening plate around it though. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On 23/10/2023 18:16, Jim Hearne wrote: >>> >>> It always is quite tight there the saloon. >>> The top engine mount is slotted where the rubber part bolts onto the >>> bracket on the engine, you can loosen the 2 nuts , lever the engine across >>> and retighten the nuts. >>> Loosening the gearbox cradle to body bolts and the lower rubber mount >>> nuts while you lever the engine across may also gain you a few mm. >>> >>> The crank pulley with the bigger outer flange was fitted to some CVH , >>> it’s not a mod, i don’t know the reason for it but you can swap for a >>> normal pulley no problem. >>> If it is a conversion of the 1.8L Sierra block the length of the engine >>> block and crank is the same and you can directly swap the original Sierra >>> crank pulley with a CVH one. >>> I did a couple of Sierra 1.8 to FWD CVH coversions. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> *From:* list...@liberator-systems.co.uk >>> *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2023 5:35 PM >>> *To:* Quantum Owners Group >>> *Subject:* [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2 >>> >>> On my saloon the engine bay clearance at crank pulley end is very small >>> - maybe 5mm max between crank pulley rim and inner wing/flitch - it is so >>> small the alternator V belt cannot be removed. The gap between plastic timg >>> belt cover and body is even smaller. >>> At the gearbox end there is approx 12mm max. >>> This is a 2.0 cvh engine with BC5 gearbox. >>> The crank pulley has a larger diameter on outside plate than inner. The >>> outside bigger diameter is approx 140mm. I have another Ford cvh/RS pulley >>> in garage and that has symmetrical sides (140mm) so maybe the installed >>> pulley is non standard/modified? It would have made sense to reduce the >>> outer side rather than inner for better clearance/fitting belt so puzzled. >>> Possible solutions seem to either somehow shift the engine and gearbox >>> more towards gearbox end or fit a smaller diameter crank pulley (if >>> available) or modify current pulley to reduce diameter of outside plate. >>> I am wondering if others have such tight clearances with cvh? It is >>> possible this engine is tighter than standard XR2 because it is a big >>> capacity conversion using I think a Sierra crankshaft so the crank >>> nose/pulley may protrude more from block. >>> Thoughts & suggestions welcome. >>> John >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>> >>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >>> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum >>> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >>> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >>> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >>> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >>> within this or related message(s). >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/df64f174-d362-42fd-855b-7320b76f0553n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/df64f174-d362-42fd-855b-7320b76f0553n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>> >>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >>> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. 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Neither the Quantum >>> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >>> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >>> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >>> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >>> within this or related message(s). >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/93f264f9-92e0-f97c-a409-9a04e5d120d9%40liberator-systems.co.uk >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/93f264f9-92e0-f97c-a409-9a04e5d120d9%40liberator-systems.co.uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>> >>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >>> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum >>> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >>> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >>> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >>> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >>> within this or related message(s). >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/4D7530C1F3524F16B56B1D4B29A184F3%40JimQuad >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/4D7530C1F3524F16B56B1D4B29A184F3%40JimQuad?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Quantum Owners Group" group. >> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >> >> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum >> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >> within this or related message(s). >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Quantum Owners Group" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/CABxHo%2BwLYsYXJVhgc7zvGn%3DG1bTwaGHdekmDhUHkPozoGV_j4w%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/CABxHo%2BwLYsYXJVhgc7zvGn%3DG1bTwaGHdekmDhUHkPozoGV_j4w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Quantum Owners Group" group. >> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >> >> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum >> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >> within this or related message(s). >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Quantum Owners Group" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/A00917EFDB4D454593B1CB8E9083C813%40JimQuad >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/A00917EFDB4D454593B1CB8E9083C813%40JimQuad?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. 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