The diesel cradle mounts are much sronger as old Q says. You don't
need the metal "cups" on them that the STD type had fitted.
With the pulley end mount there are three H/D option I know of .
1. Polyurethane solid ( not very nice for road as they transmit lots
of nvh)
2. Fill the voids in the original mount with liquid polyurethane.
Choose a softish grade .( This doesn't transmit so much nvh as a solid
mount but does stiffen up loads)
3. Cut and stuff rubber strips into the voids.( This I did for my
automatic saloon as gaps are Uber thin on that. I used thick rubber
matting cut into suitable sized strips pushed into the gaps. It
stiffened the movement to almost nothing .I didn't notice any real
change in nvh)
You can also get solid poly cradle mounts but again not really a road
car solution.
You can install a trigger wheel on the inside of the belt pulley or
you can attach it to the camshaft pulley. I have heard of both types
of setup being used by users on the speeduino ecu group . Another
option is to mount the trigger wheel in place of the distributor .
Darren
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023, 09:00 list...@liberator-systems.co.uk,
<lists...@liberator-systems.co.uk> wrote:
Levering engine across worked to some extent but still not as much
clearance as I wanted at pulley end. I would rather have it close
at gearbox end - one reason being I was hoping to fit a timing
ring to crank pulley so I could play with efi at some point
(although block is an efi block flywheel is not an efi one).
With engine levered across I could just remove alternator belt.
Belt was 11.9mm * 675 cogged. It looks rather wide on pulley so I
have ordered a 10mm wide belt which is width vast majority of
suppliers specify for XR2. I checked the V profile of crank and
alternator pulleys and an RS one and they are same.The pulley with
unequal flanges has a smaller working diameter so maybe it was
used in configurations where belt fitting was particularly tight.
Anyway I decided to remove all engine mounts and check them
because I could see the engine top mount insulator rubber was
getting well distorted when engine was levered across. The gearbox
cradle front rubber mount was really out of shape - it had
sheared to a nice parallelogram shape despite being inside the
standard metal cup. The rear mount looked fine. Both cradle
rubbers seem to be a standard Ford Fiesta part 89FB6038FA. In
saloon build manual it says that diesel rubber Ford part 1661786
is recommended for engine power 120hp and above so these maybe a
better option. Anyone know if these fit in Fiesta metal cups? - on
the Ford refs I checked it looks like these rubbers were used on
other diesel models but not Fiesta diesel? Also what is the
function of the J shaped plate fitted over rear cradle mount?
(this is an XR2 cradle).
I think the lower mounts take most of the load but when they start
giving way the top mount is loaded up more than it should be. The
rubber in my top insulator mount is not torn but pretty soft. As
it's now out I thought may as well replace but AFAIK new
insulators are no longer available. There is probably somewhere
that can rebush these but I haven't come across them yet. I know
SB Parts do exchange XR2 units but the Quantum ones have been
modded from standard so probably not good for exchange. New
upgraded mounts are available (SB, Vibra .) - just need to mod the
bottom leg as per QSC. I noticed looking at Ford parts diagram the
Fiesta Mk2 diesel insulator looks like a sturdier design (M12 thru
bolt rather than M10 studs bonded on sides of rubber) - anyone
tried one?
John
On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 10:45:59 UTC+1 Darren Siepka wrote:
The sigma were used in focus and fiesta until fairly recently,
available on 1.25, 1.4 ,1.6 and 1.7 (only in the puma)
Iirc when they appeared in the pumas they were called the
zetec se , the Yamaha designed engines.
They aren't the best(can't rebuild the bottom end as there are
no pins in the bearing caps) , but they are available .
The 1.5 and 1.6 ecoboost blocks are actually almost identical,
only having direct injection heads instead of the port injection.
On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, 10:37 Jim Hearne, <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
Yes, good point, the Mk1 was only 4 speed.
I did a 5 speed conversion on a Mk1 Fiesta before there
were kits available.
It only needed a small modification to the side of the
engine bay to clear the 5th gear end of the gearbox.
But, the bigger issue was that the Mk1 Fiesta tie bar on
the suspension went straight under the 5th gear housing on
the gearbox.
I ended up buying a very expensive Ford Motorsport kit
which lowered the front tie bar mounting but also came
with longer adjustable tie bars.
I heated up the tie bar and put a double bend in it to
clear the end of the gearbox and also made an offset front
mount bracket.
No idea what it did to the suspension geometry but it worked.
Is the sigma the Zetec-S or is it the later engine based
on the CVH ?
I’m not up on my later engines apart from the ECO-Boost
(now seeming know as the ECO-Boom because of a tendency of
blowing up)
Jim
*From:* Darren Siepka
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2023 10:17 AM
*To:* quantu...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance -
Saloon MK2
"Also, remember the saloon was originally based on the Mk1
Fiesta which had the crossflow engine, no CVH’s on the Mk1
so it may have been something to do with that as well.
"
Another point was the MK1 fiesta only had 4spd gearboxes
which are narrower.
I recall there was a kit that cut the chassis rails on a
MK1 fiesta to fit a 5spd gearbox in, something we can't use.
With an auto box ( CVT or the escort one)in the saloon it
is even tighter !
I hope the sigma and auto box from a Mk7 fiesta I have
bought for my saloon will have more room this time.
Darren
On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, 09:10 Jim Hearne,
<j...@quantums.info> wrote:
I would guess they were trying to keep the clearance
under the wheel arches for the wheels
Also, remember the saloon was originally based on the
Mk1 Fiesta which had the crossflow engine, no CVH’s on
the Mk1 so it may have been something to do with that
as well.
The problem with the Zetecs is they have the flat belt
pulleys instead off the V belt, this makes the engines
a cm or more wider.
There have been several ways people have put a Zetec
in the saloon.
1. Solid engine mounts so the engine and gearbox can’t
move, somebody did this, maybe only for a track car.
2. Cut away the chassis rail, really not recommended
but again has been done.
3. Fit a CVH water pump (which runs off the cam belt
instead of the auxiliary belt) to the Zetec and
convert the alternator and crank pulley to CVH V belt
versions.
4. Remove the guts from the Zetec pump and turn it
into a outlet pipe only, then fit an electric water
pump above the alternator.
I did the electric water pump version on my saloon.
As long as it doesn’t cut through the box section or
is too close to the edge, one tidy round hole probably
wont cause too many issues as the forces will go round
it.
Something hacked out by chain drilling (seen that) is
somewhat different.
But will it help ?, you will still need to lower the
engine to get the pulley off so you might as well
remove the top engine mount and lower that end of the
engine down, it can normally be done without having to
disconnect any pipes or exhaust etc.
Jim
*From:* listsub3
*Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2023 10:57 PM
*To:* quantu...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox
clearance - Saloon MK2
Thanks Jim
I will try shifting engine over by slackening fasteniings.
I don't know why Quantum did not make the engine bay a
bit wider in these tight areas!
The engine block is actually a bored/linered 1.6 efi
not Sierra.
Originally I was going to replace this cvh engine with
a 2.0 blacktop but the car had other more urgent
issues and I don't have the zetec motor any longer. I
seem to remember when I measured up the zetec it would
have had same clearance issues. I know you have done
zetec swaps - did you have to cut any bodywork?
I have been tempted to cut a hole in wing just big
enough to access the crank nut with a socket (which
currently is not possible without moving engine).
Probably not a good idea without at least a removeable
strengthening plate around it though.
John
On 23/10/2023 18:16, Jim Hearne wrote:
It always is quite tight there the saloon.
The top engine mount is slotted where the rubber part
bolts onto the bracket on the engine, you can loosen
the 2 nuts , lever the engine across and retighten
the nuts.
Loosening the gearbox cradle to body bolts and the
lower rubber mount nuts while you lever the engine
across may also gain you a few mm.
The crank pulley with the bigger outer flange was
fitted to some CVH , it’s not a mod, i don’t know the
reason for it but you can swap for a normal pulley no
problem.
If it is a conversion of the 1.8L Sierra block the
length of the engine block and crank is the same and
you can directly swap the original Sierra crank
pulley with a CVH one.
I did a couple of Sierra 1.8 to FWD CVH coversions.
Jim
*From:* list...@liberator-systems.co.uk
*Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2023 5:35 PM
*To:* Quantum Owners Group
*Subject:* [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance
- Saloon MK2
On my saloon the engine bay clearance at crank pulley
end is very small - maybe 5mm max between crank
pulley rim and inner wing/flitch - it is so small the
alternator V belt cannot be removed. The gap between
plastic timg belt cover and body is even smaller.
At the gearbox end there is approx 12mm max.
This is a 2.0 cvh engine with BC5 gearbox.
The crank pulley has a larger diameter on outside
plate than inner. The outside bigger diameter is
approx 140mm. I have another Ford cvh/RS pulley in
garage and that has symmetrical sides (140mm) so
maybe the installed pulley is non standard/modified?
It would have made sense to reduce the outer side
rather than inner for better clearance/fitting belt
so puzzled.
Possible solutions seem to either somehow shift the
engine and gearbox more towards gearbox end or fit a
smaller diameter crank pulley (if available) or
modify current pulley to reduce diameter of outside
plate.
I am wondering if others have such tight clearances
with cvh? It is possible this engine is tighter than
standard XR2 because it is a big capacity conversion
using I think a Sierra crankshaft so the crank
nose/pulley may protrude more from block.
Thoughts & suggestions welcome.
John
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