Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2

Jim Hearne Mon, 30 Oct 2023 02:30:18 -0700

SB seem to have new mounts as part of a Zetec conversion so maybe he cansupply without needing an exchange, or maybe he could get your modified onerefurbished.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195674565946

Jim

-----Original Message-----From: Jim Hearne

Sent: Monday, October 30, 2023 9:15 AM
To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2

I would just fit a EFI flywheel and pickup, got to be easier to keep it
standard.

Part 89FB6038FA is a standard Mk3 Fiesta mounting (you can tell the date the
part was first used from the first 2 digits on Ford part numbers) , this
looks similar to the Mk2 mount.

1661786 is the Ford finis code (why did Ford use 2 different part number
schemes ?) for part 89AB6B032AD, this is the Mk3 Fiesta Diesel mount.
They fit without the cups that go on the Mk2 mounts and you also don't need
the J shaped plate, the cups and J plate are both the limit the movement of
the mount.
All that is built into the Mk3 Diesel mount.

I'm not sure how different the Mk2 Diesel top mount is but as it's a
different block on the Diesel the mounting could be quite different.
The top mounts do wear less than the bottom ones so you may be able to find
a good second hand one.

Jim

From: list...@liberator-systems.co.uk
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2023 10:56 PM
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2

Levering engine across worked to some extent but still not as much clearance
as I wanted at pulley end. I would rather have it close at gearbox end - one
reason being I was hoping to fit a timing ring to crank pulley so I could
play with efi at some point (although block is an efi block flywheel is not
an efi one).

With engine levered across I could just remove alternator belt. Belt was
11.9mm * 675 cogged. It looks rather wide on pulley so I have ordered a 10mm
wide belt which is width vast majority of suppliers specify for XR2. I
checked the V profile of crank and alternator pulleys and an RS one and they
are same.The pulley with unequal flanges has a smaller working diameter so
maybe it was used in configurations where belt fitting was particularly
tight.

Anyway I decided to remove all engine mounts and check them because I could
see the engine top mount insulator rubber was getting well distorted when
engine was levered across. The gearbox cradle front rubber mount was really
out of shape    - it had sheared to a nice parallelogram shape despite being
inside the standard metal cup. The rear mount looked fine. Both cradle
rubbers seem to be a standard Ford Fiesta part 89FB6038FA. In saloon build
manual it says that diesel rubber Ford part 1661786 is recommended for
engine power 120hp and above so these maybe a better option. Anyone know if
these fit in Fiesta metal cups? - on the Ford refs I checked it looks like
these rubbers were used on other diesel models but not Fiesta diesel? Also
what is the function of the J shaped plate fitted over rear cradle mount?
(this is an XR2 cradle).

I think the lower mounts take most of the load but when they start giving
way the top mount is loaded up more than it should be. The rubber in my top
insulator mount is not torn but pretty soft. As it's now out I thought may
as well replace but AFAIK new insulators are no longer available. There is
probably somewhere that can rebush these but I haven't come across them yet.
I know SB Parts do exchange XR2 units but the Quantum ones have been modded
from standard so probably not good for exchange. New upgraded mounts are
available (SB, Vibra .) - just need to mod the bottom leg as per QSC. I
noticed looking at Ford parts diagram the Fiesta Mk2 diesel insulator looks
like a sturdier design (M12 thru bolt rather than M10 studs bonded on sides
of rubber) - anyone tried one?

John
On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 10:45:59 UTC+1 Darren Siepka wrote:

The sigma were used in focus and fiesta until fairly recently, available on
1.25, 1.4 ,1.6 and 1.7 (only in the puma)
Iirc when they appeared in the pumas they were called the zetec se , the
Yamaha designed engines.
They aren't the best(can't rebuild the bottom end as there are no pins in
the bearing caps) , but they are available .
The 1.5 and 1.6 ecoboost blocks are actually almost identical, only having
direct injection heads instead of the port injection.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, 10:37 Jim Hearne, <j...@quantums.info> wrote:

Yes, good point, the Mk1 was only 4 speed.
I did a 5 speed conversion on a Mk1 Fiesta before there were kits available.
It only needed a small modification to the side of the engine bay to clear
the 5th gear end of the gearbox.
But, the bigger issue was that the Mk1 Fiesta tie bar on the suspension went
straight under the 5th gear housing on the gearbox.
I ended up buying a very expensive Ford Motorsport kit which lowered the
front tie bar mounting but also came with longer adjustable tie bars.
I heated up the tie bar and put a double bend in it to clear the end of the
gearbox and also made an offset front mount bracket.
No idea what it did to the suspension geometry but it worked.

Is the sigma the Zetec-S or is it the later engine based on the CVH ?
I’m not up on my later engines apart from the ECO-Boost (now seeming know as
the ECO-Boom because of a tendency of blowing up)

Jim

From: Darren Siepka
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 10:17 AM
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2

"Also, remember the saloon was originally based on the Mk1 Fiesta which had
the crossflow engine, no CVH’s on the Mk1 so it may have been something to
do with that as well.
"

Another point was the MK1 fiesta only had 4spd gearboxes which are narrower.
I recall there was a kit that cut the chassis rails on a MK1 fiesta to fit a
5spd gearbox in, something we can't use.

With an auto box ( CVT or the escort one)in the saloon it is even tighter !
I hope the sigma and auto box from a Mk7 fiesta I have bought for my saloon
will have more room  this time.

Darren

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023, 09:10 Jim Hearne, <j...@quantums.info> wrote:

I would guess they were trying to keep the  clearance under the wheel arches
for the wheels
Also, remember the saloon was originally based on the Mk1 Fiesta which had
the crossflow engine, no CVH’s on the Mk1 so it may have been something to
do with that as well.

The problem with the Zetecs is they have the flat belt pulleys instead off
the V belt, this makes the engines a cm or more wider.
There have been several ways people have put a Zetec in the saloon.
1. Solid engine mounts so the engine and gearbox can’t move, somebody did
this, maybe only for a track car.
2. Cut away the chassis rail, really not recommended but again has been
done.
3. Fit a CVH water pump (which runs off the cam belt instead of the
auxiliary belt) to the Zetec and convert the alternator and crank pulley to
CVH V belt versions.
4. Remove the guts from the Zetec pump and turn it into a outlet pipe only,
then fit an electric water pump above the alternator.

I did the electric water pump version on my saloon.

As long as it doesn’t cut through the box section or is too close to the
edge, one tidy round hole probably wont cause too many issues as the forces
will go round it.
Something hacked out by chain drilling (seen that) is somewhat different.
But will it help ?, you will still need to lower the engine to get the
pulley off so you might as well remove the top engine mount and lower that
end of the engine down, it can normally be done without having to disconnect
any pipes or exhaust etc.

Jim

From: listsub3
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 10:57 PM
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2

Thanks Jim
I will try shifting engine over by slackening fasteniings.
I don't know why Quantum did not make the engine bay a bit wider in these
tight areas!
The engine block is actually a bored/linered 1.6 efi not Sierra.
Originally I was going to replace this cvh engine with a 2.0 blacktop but
the car had other more urgent issues and I don't have the zetec motor any
longer. I seem to remember when I measured up the zetec it would have had
same clearance issues. I know you have done zetec swaps - did you have to
cut any bodywork?
I have been tempted to cut a hole in wing just big enough to access the
crank nut with a socket (which currently is not possible without moving
engine). Probably not a good idea without at least a removeable
strengthening plate around it though.

John

On 23/10/2023 18:16, Jim Hearne wrote:

It always is quite tight there the saloon.
The top engine mount is slotted where the rubber part bolts onto the bracket
on the engine, you can loosen the 2 nuts , lever the engine across and
retighten the nuts.
Loosening the gearbox cradle to body bolts and the lower rubber mount nuts
while you lever the engine across may also gain you a few mm.

The crank pulley with the bigger outer flange was fitted to some CVH , it’s
not a mod, i don’t know the reason for it but you can swap for a normal
pulley no problem.
If it is a conversion of the 1.8L Sierra block the length of the engine
block and crank is the same and you can directly swap the original Sierra
crank pulley with a CVH one.
I did a couple of Sierra 1.8 to FWD CVH coversions.

Jim

From: list...@liberator-systems.co.uk
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 5:35 PM
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Engine/gearbox clearance - Saloon MK2

On my saloon the engine bay clearance at crank pulley end is very small -
maybe 5mm max between crank pulley rim and inner wing/flitch - it is so
small the alternator V belt cannot be removed. The gap between plastic timg
belt cover and body is even smaller.
At the gearbox end there is approx 12mm max.
This is a 2.0 cvh engine with BC5 gearbox.
The crank pulley has a larger diameter on outside plate than inner. The
outside bigger diameter is approx 140mm. I have another Ford cvh/RS pulley
in garage and that has symmetrical sides (140mm) so maybe the installed
pulley is non standard/modified? It would have made sense to reduce the
outer side rather than inner for better clearance/fitting belt so puzzled.
Possible solutions seem to either somehow shift the engine and gearbox more
towards gearbox end or fit a smaller diameter crank pulley (if available) or
modify current pulley to reduce diameter of outside plate.
I am wondering if others have such tight clearances with cvh? It is possible
this engine is tighter than standard XR2 because it is a big capacity
conversion using I think a Sierra crankshaft  so the crank nose/pulley may
protrude more from block.
Thoughts & suggestions welcome.
John

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