On 02/08/18 00:18, Yuraeitha wrote:
@Ivan
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 7:50:30 AM UTC+1, Ivan Mitev wrote:
On 02/04/18 19:26, Yuraeitha wrote:
On Sunday, February 4, 2018 at 6:00:15 PM UTC+1, Ivan Mitev wrote:
Also it seems like some functions "might (maybe)" work as intended, for example
I can copy files between VM's and Win7, on a Win7 that was installed on Qubes 3.2., but
backup restored on Qubes 4. Others seem like they can do this too. Also it seems it's a
common problem not to be internet in the restored Q3.2-Win7, perhaps the code is
different in regards to how it ties networking with Qubes 4? I have no idea about the
rest of the mechanics from a users perspective though, and most certainly not as a
developer as I unfortunately don't have such skills, I wish I could help more.
I just spent a bit of time restoring my windows VM from 3.2, here are a
few notes that might be helpful to work around some bugs that you're
probably hitting too (I haven't filed any issues yet):
- PVH/HVM: in the VM's settings gui, PVH is always displayed whatever
the real pref value. -> use qvm-prefs vmname virt_mode to make sure
you're really in HVM mode.
- Networking: the PV network adapter was stuck at "Identifying" ;
pinging an *ip* works but ping a host fails. tcpdump on sys-firewall
shows that the requests were sent to the gateway's ip and were rejected.
The reason seems to be that in R4.0 VMs are now using the exposed
"/qubes-{primary,secondary}-dns" values, while in R3.2 the DNS server
was the same as "/qubes-gateway" (see [1]). In my setup,
"/qubes-{primary,secondary}-dns" are 10.139.1.{1,2} and /qubes-gateway
is 10.137.0.6. DNS requests are rejected because they're sent to
10.137.0.6 instead of 10.139.1.{1,2}
workaround 1-> manually set the DNS servers to
/qubes-{primary,secondary}-dns ips. Ping and Internet Explorer worked,
but the PV adapter was still suck at "identifying" and my Amazon Kindle
for PC app complained about finding no network (it seems there's a
windows "connectivity" API/flag that some apps use). However you will
have to do this each time after boot since Qubes tools will reset the
network settings.
workaround 2-> in Program Files/Invisible.../Qubes.../bin/..., rename
network-setup.exe to network-setup.exe.bkp to prevent Qubes tools from
messing with your network settings, and manually set the VM's IP and DNS
servers in the PV adapter network setting. Everything should then work
OK, the only problem being that you'll have to make sure you keep your
network settings synced (esp. the IP when you clone the VM).
- Copying to/from the Win VM: works perfectly - you just have to type
twice the destination VM (once in Windows, once in Qubes/dom0), since
Qubes Tools aren't updated to reflect R4.0 new "way".
note: before finding what was causing the connectivity problem I tried
to update xen's windows PV drivers [2] but it broke the VM (ie. it
wasn't starting anymore) so I had to restore it again. Anyway IIRC R3.2
Qubes Tool's drivers were at the same version as Xen's (8.2), so no need
to fiddle with this.
I was thinking about posting those steps on qubes-users@ but I don't
feel I had done enough testing on my VM yet. I see you're quite active
on qubes-users so feel free to redact/post some of my remarks if you
think they'll help.
[ an unofficial wiki would be a helpful bridge between the MLs and
Qubes' official documentation: it's difficult to skim through all the
related ML posts and IMO Qubes' official documentation shouldn't include
crappy workaround hacks like the ones I've described above ].
[1] https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/vm-interface/
[2] https://www.xenproject.org/developers/teams/windows-pv-drivers.html
@Evan
Ivan :)
Thanks Evan! This really looks promising, I will go and try it out tomorrow if
I can scrap some free-time to try it out. I'll post here the moment I've tried
it, hopefully I can get the internet working.
BTW I assumed there was a single "Qubes Tools" service responsible for
setting the network, launching qubesdb daemon, ..., but I noticed a bit
after my post that each task was handled by a different service. So you
can simply disable the "Qubes Network Setup" service instead of renaming
the .exe
Also,
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-core-agent-windows/blob/master/src/network-setup/qubes-network-setup.c
indeed shows that qubesGateway (/qubes-gateway) is used for DNS (line
287). The code is easy to understand and adding the new DNS variables, +
setting the servers accordingly (if the variables aren't empty) should
be straightforward. I don't have a Windows build environment to test any
changes though.
It's also very ensuring to hear that it's safe to copy files between Win7 and
other VM's. I was a bit stressed out over this one due to worry of bit-rot.
Well, it is working but I can't say how safe it is. But I imagine that
R4.0 would disable such copy operations if they were deemed unsafe.
I'll get back to you when I've tried this out, thanks!
OK :)
Sorry for the delay, I had planned to test and report back here sooner.
I followed your guide and I managed to restore networking/internet to Windows 7
in Qubes 4 by doing what you recommended. Thanks for sharing this! :-)
you're welcome
- I'll try some more user-testing and report back here, including how I tested
it, but I might not get it done until after a few days after the 15th February,
as I have an upcoming long-time upcoming large exam on that date which is
feeling to me like ripping teeth out + regular work at same time, so I will be
a bit disconnected to say the least. The kind of Win7 user-testing I was
thinking about is straight forward but a bit time consuming though, restoring a
couple of Windows 7 backup VM's, and try the different approaches and see if it
goes the same way. I'm in particular unsure about the windows job services
disabling feature, but on the other hand the re-name of the service .exe file
seems like it'll stick.
- I think it's great if you post your guide for others to see :) You can always
leave a disclaimer, such as no code has not been audited in this particular
case, however that it worked for a few of users who tried it (it worked for me
on my first try, more to come though). If people have all available
information, including the disclaimer, then they can make calls for themselves,
so that responsibility is not put on you if something should go wrong.
Well, strictly speaking there's no "guide" yet :) - only bits and parts
in notes, ML posts or from the official qubes documentation. Marek's
last post also provided a lot of informative stuff.
Ideally there should be a wiki page with those tests and pieces of info,
with more relaxed "commit" rights than the official Qubes docs so that
users can freely change/fix the instructions until things settle down -
at which point they could maybe be included in the official documentation.
I see there's a handful of free wiki sites on the web, I'll try to setup
a page on one of those. But as usual, not ETA - I have very little free
time ; if you'd like you can go ahead and publish what you already
have/found out and I'll definitely help with the content and tests.
- Regarding the copy to and from Win7, I think you're right, it's probably
safe, at least mostly. I have to shake off that paranoia feeling I have about
bit-rot though, it keeps dragging back my doubt. It's probably after years of
taking measures against possible but remote risk of bit-rot disasters, that
this thought keeps nagging at me like a haunting ghost from the shadows. I
don't trust many file-transfer mechanisms to begin with, so I think it may
affect my judgment here, I tend to question even the best file-transfer
programs and mechanisms. Which is a bit problematic if I can't read much code,
and few people dare to stick their neck out and say file-systems or
file-transfer mechanisms are safe, which is also understandable. It's fair
enough not wanting to give reassurances on these issues, it's a hard place to
make anything that is really reliable given the best technology currently
available, and some people can get really aggressive if something goes wrong,
unfortunately. But for that reason too makes it really hard to find an
objective truth on these kind of systems. It does leave one with food for
thought, or dare I say food for worries. Maybe the best to do here is to run a
hash check on before/after transfer on the Win7 files deemed too important, but
outside important files not to worry too much? A bit of both?
IIUC the protocol hasn't changed so the copy/move action is safe (which
of course doesn't provide any guarantee that the data you're copying is
safe - ie. you could copy a virus/malware).
Cheers,
Ivan
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