On Wednesday, 17 August 2016 02:15:32 UTC+10, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
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> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:07:24AM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> > On 2016-08-16 00:18, eobaillie wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sorry for the misunderstanding. You do not have to (and, indeed, cannot)
> > >> update your TemplateBasedVMs from Fedora 21 to Fedora 23, since they're
> > >> Template-based.
> > >
> > > Normally speaking, though, if I'm running a computer with a particular
> > > operating system, I can upgrade that operating system to a new version.
> > > So
> > > are you saying I can't do this with the various VMs run by Qubes?
> > >
> >
> > No, you certainly can. However, the way to do it in Qubes (due to the way
> > the
> > Template system works) is to upgrade the operating system in the TemplateVM,
> > not the TemplateBasedVM. This is because the TemplateVM is where the
> > operating
> > system files reside. They do not reside in the TemplateBasedVM -- only user
> > data resides there.
> >
> > >> This means that they don't have a root filesystem (where the OS and
> > >> programs are stored) of their own. Instead, they get their root
> > >> filesystem from the TemplateVM on which they're based. As long as your
> > >> TemplateVMs have been upgraded correctly, your TemplateBasedVMs should
> > >> work with the upgraded TemplateVMs normally.
> > >
> > > The result of running "sudo qubes-dom0-update qubes-template-fedora-23"
> > > was not to update a TemplateVM, though. It created a new TemplateVM, so
> > > now
> > > I have 2: fedora-21 and fedora-23 - the second of which doesn't yet seem
> > > to have a purpose unless or until I create new VMs
> > >
> >
> > That command ("sudo qubes-dom0-update qubes-template-fedora-23") installs a
> > new fedora-23 template from the repo. It is the preferred way to obtain a
> > fresh fedora-23 template. However, if you instead want to upgrade an
> > existing
> > fedora-21 template to fedora-23 (e.g., to preserve any customizations you've
> > made), then you must use the in-place upgrade procedure:
> >
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/fedora-template-upgrade-21/
> >
> > >> The fact that you're now asking whether you should shut down all of your
> > >> VMs one by one suggests that you may not have followed the above
> > >> procedure, since rebooting dom0 entails shutting down all of those VMs
> > >> (but it's also possible that this is just a miscommunication).
> > >
> > > no, it just means I'm doing this process gradually, leaving space for
> > > things like, eg, restarting a VM in order to post things on the Internet
> >
> > Ok, understood.
> >
> > >>
> > >> It's also not clear to me what you mean by "tell them in VM-manager to be
> > >> fedora-23 not fedora-21 VMs."
> > >
> > > "upgrade the operating system the VMs are using to version 23 of fedora
> > > rather than version 21"
> > >
> >
> > Ok, got it.
> >
> > >> If you've just performed an in-place upgrade on a template (from Fedora
> > >> 21 to Fedora 23) with the intention of using it, then it would indeed
> > >> make sense to base your AppVM on this newly upgraded template (if it
> > >> wasn't already). Again, as long as the upgrade has been done correctly,
> > >> everything should work normally.
> > >
> > > based on that, it doesn't seem to be - I don't think my system is
> > > currently in the state you describe
> > >
> > > It is possible that the step that went wrong is step one - "Upgrade
> > > fedora
> > > templates". Would you normally expect that after that first step, the
> > > default TemplateVM would have upgraded itself to the most recent available
> > > version of Fedora? Because that didn't happen.
> > >
> >
> > Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. No, there are additional steps required
> > to
> > upgrade an existing Fedora 21 template to Fedora 23 that are not listed on
> > that page. They are instead listed on this page (same as linked above):
> >
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/fedora-template-upgrade-21/
> >
> > >
> > > Bearing in mind, in all of this my ultimate purpose is "make my Qubes
> > > installation indistinguishable from a fresh installation of version 3.1".
> > > Which is not yet the case!
> > >
> >
> > If this is your goal, then as noted above, it may be easier and more
> > preferable to obtain a fresh fedora-23 template from the repo (as you've
> > already done). Either way works, and which is preferable depends on things
> > like the modifications (if any) you've made to your template(s) and how
> > acceptable you find the results of the in-place upgrade procedure for your
> > individual purposes.
>
> I'm not sure if I understand the intention here, but isn't this all
> thread about just switching AppVMs to the new template (either upgraded
> in-place, or downloaded fresh one). You can do this in VM settings -
> just change "fedora-21" to "fedora-23" in template selection drop-down.
> You need to do this for every VM (unless you want to keep some of VMs
> using old template for some reason).
Yes, that's exactly right. Basically, what you just posted is the answer to my
original question :) Confusion arose because the upgrade instructions stop at
"install new templates" - and didn't continue to "how do you then _use_ them"
which is possibly assumed knowledge for people who've been using Qubes for a
bit (which I haven't).
Another question then - is there a particular reason for upgrading the default
fedora and/or other installed TemplateVMs as a part of the R3.0 -> R3.1
upgrade? Because it seems from all this that that is actually quite an
independent process - that there's no particular point in both updating the
fedora-21 template and also downloading fedora-23, (unless for some reason you
wanted some VMs to be upgraded to 23 and some not) and that in any case this
process could go on before, after, or at some quite unrelated time to,
upgrading dom0 from 3.0 to 3.1
Thanks!
E
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