-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 2016-08-16 18:06, [email protected] wrote: > On Wednesday, 17 August 2016 02:15:32 UTC+10, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki > wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 >> >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:07:24AM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote: >>> On 2016-08-16 00:18, eobaillie wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry for the misunderstanding. You do not have to (and, indeed, >>>>> cannot) update your TemplateBasedVMs from Fedora 21 to Fedora 23, >>>>> since they're Template-based. >>>> >>>> Normally speaking, though, if I'm running a computer with a >>>> particular operating system, I can upgrade that operating system to a >>>> new version. So are you saying I can't do this with the various VMs >>>> run by Qubes? >>>> >>> >>> No, you certainly can. However, the way to do it in Qubes (due to the >>> way the Template system works) is to upgrade the operating system in >>> the TemplateVM, not the TemplateBasedVM. This is because the TemplateVM >>> is where the operating system files reside. They do not reside in the >>> TemplateBasedVM -- only user data resides there. >>> >>>>> This means that they don't have a root filesystem (where the OS and >>>>> programs are stored) of their own. Instead, they get their root >>>>> filesystem from the TemplateVM on which they're based. As long as >>>>> your TemplateVMs have been upgraded correctly, your >>>>> TemplateBasedVMs should work with the upgraded TemplateVMs >>>>> normally. >>>> >>>> The result of running "sudo qubes-dom0-update >>>> qubes-template-fedora-23" was not to update a TemplateVM, though. It >>>> created a new TemplateVM, so now I have 2: fedora-21 and fedora-23 - >>>> the second of which doesn't yet seem to have a purpose unless or >>>> until I create new VMs >>>> >>> >>> That command ("sudo qubes-dom0-update qubes-template-fedora-23") >>> installs a new fedora-23 template from the repo. It is the preferred >>> way to obtain a fresh fedora-23 template. However, if you instead want >>> to upgrade an existing fedora-21 template to fedora-23 (e.g., to >>> preserve any customizations you've made), then you must use the >>> in-place upgrade procedure: >>> >>> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/fedora-template-upgrade-21/ >>> >>>>> The fact that you're now asking whether you should shut down all >>>>> of your VMs one by one suggests that you may not have followed the >>>>> above procedure, since rebooting dom0 entails shutting down all of >>>>> those VMs (but it's also possible that this is just a >>>>> miscommunication). >>>> >>>> no, it just means I'm doing this process gradually, leaving space for >>>> things like, eg, restarting a VM in order to post things on the >>>> Internet >>> >>> Ok, understood. >>> >>>>> >>>>> It's also not clear to me what you mean by "tell them in >>>>> VM-manager to be fedora-23 not fedora-21 VMs." >>>> >>>> "upgrade the operating system the VMs are using to version 23 of >>>> fedora rather than version 21" >>>> >>> >>> Ok, got it. >>> >>>>> If you've just performed an in-place upgrade on a template (from >>>>> Fedora 21 to Fedora 23) with the intention of using it, then it >>>>> would indeed make sense to base your AppVM on this newly upgraded >>>>> template (if it wasn't already). Again, as long as the upgrade has >>>>> been done correctly, everything should work normally. >>>> >>>> based on that, it doesn't seem to be - I don't think my system is >>>> currently in the state you describe >>>> >>>> It is possible that the step that went wrong is step one - "Upgrade >>>> fedora templates". Would you normally expect that after that first >>>> step, the default TemplateVM would have upgraded itself to the most >>>> recent available version of Fedora? Because that didn't happen. >>>> >>> >>> Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. No, there are additional steps >>> required to upgrade an existing Fedora 21 template to Fedora 23 that >>> are not listed on that page. They are instead listed on this page (same >>> as linked above): >>> >>> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/fedora-template-upgrade-21/ >>> >>>> >>>> Bearing in mind, in all of this my ultimate purpose is "make my Qubes >>>> installation indistinguishable from a fresh installation of version >>>> 3.1". Which is not yet the case! >>>> >>> >>> If this is your goal, then as noted above, it may be easier and more >>> preferable to obtain a fresh fedora-23 template from the repo (as >>> you've already done). Either way works, and which is preferable depends >>> on things like the modifications (if any) you've made to your >>> template(s) and how acceptable you find the results of the in-place >>> upgrade procedure for your individual purposes. >> >> I'm not sure if I understand the intention here, but isn't this all >> thread about just switching AppVMs to the new template (either upgraded >> in-place, or downloaded fresh one). You can do this in VM settings - just >> change "fedora-21" to "fedora-23" in template selection drop-down. You >> need to do this for every VM (unless you want to keep some of VMs using >> old template for some reason). > > Yes, that's exactly right. Basically, what you just posted is the answer > to my original question :) Confusion arose because the upgrade instructions > stop at "install new templates" - and didn't continue to "how do you then > _use_ them" which is possibly assumed knowledge for people who've been > using Qubes for a bit (which I haven't). > > Another question then - is there a particular reason for upgrading the > default fedora and/or other installed TemplateVMs as a part of the R3.0 -> > R3.1 upgrade? Because it seems from all this that that is actually quite > an independent process - that there's no particular point in both updating > the fedora-21 template and also downloading fedora-23, (unless for some > reason you wanted some VMs to be upgraded to 23 and some not) and that in > any case this process could go on before, after, or at some quite unrelated > time to, upgrading dom0 from 3.0 to 3.1 >
I think there's some terminological confusion here and in the docs due to the existence of three possible senses of the word "upgrade" when applied to a template: 1. Upgrading a template to be compatible with a new Qubes OS release: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/upgrade-to-r3.1/#tocAnchor-1-1-1 2. Upgrading a template "internally," e.g., Fedora 21 to Fedora 23: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/fedora-template-upgrade-21/ 3. "Effectively" upgrading by replacing an existing template with a newer one from the repo. The first one can be important because if you don't upgrade all of your TemplateVMs and StandaloneVMs before you upgrade dom0, it will be much more difficult (or impossible) to upgrade them afterward. You're right about the second one. It's an independent process. For example, IIRC, I upgraded my Fedora templates from 21 to 23 (due to 21's EOL) well before upgrading to Qubes R3.1. The first two are in-place upgrades. The third one is not. The third, like the second, is also an independent process. You can decide to obtain a fresh template from the repo any time you like and use it to replace an existing template, and this may effectively constitute upgrading the template for you. - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXs734AAoJENtN07w5UDAwod0QAKQLEbkzx1XcOK6DUelmVJIS TJAyPKfsSB2MCt2T0LI+FJu5qBjsSIDTlNwHndmL6w7V7xqanA1GH6hQTH6c4iIL ls/f/GXMYzuN8DXu8Z5SMz+v3rIh5bHgNsvDTTjMBnAijLmq2B/9YSSi4/BjTDle 5Pu5sgjL+0leBJ6Ms69JXIwIBrDnVv7DD/wnOQ52KutgrcG4t3zRJXq0K84y1stn 87Sdir98o7thJmKybiscpH0xDIz7E1mt20EHnHKzJEB1E0YRF0hhP/9T5pVeJ0Vf l2lhcEvVV483VWzWFpoGUJpJNIKpd8df1EJzcsPhRUF0GakE/iR2Pj17tduGIx+6 nQib3RcukeGh2y8YwT17We66cke1MOyVTNsgXyWWKrwo0BwHxeZgR7Uh6yU6H8J3 uz83Rp2FlEHxgYZeBvClV22FaaEGIF2yvXW106klqHHc56bHQ1K3ITn8XEG9x2sU KkHvKxOtg4sPDNrEsLLXd1xbIJILm+NwVIw6rxstppbAavrg68I+ld7hfrnqRFr6 OjeCfWFJZiLHvVNX5SMqC8qx382w/uswu0uGlsCqGsssJVz+cAp4BdlAd5bb8PVD GvBpY4x+gMwkoPx7ctkGSg8RpkdwTe13h6wuLxYC4DPCK5+lcevpNs31YKSq3Ndu uII9Wo4veKFrRcIUfi2y =vUSz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/05ea65a4-1d4b-3495-caae-551f6d8b5a90%40qubes-os.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
