On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:17:38 -0500, Aubrey Jaffer <[email protected]> wrote:
> Implicit-concurrency doesn't mandate that any concurrency be used.
> And cautious application of concurrency is entirely compatible with
> implicit-concurrency. For instance, one might only fork threads when
> the subexpressions call user-defined functions, or user-defined
> functions whose definitions are over 40 lines long.
If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that we apply a new
semantic restriction on the properties of unspecified orders of evaluation
in order to eliminate the need to do potentially impossible or intractable
code analysis to determine whether the expression may be evaluated in
parallel. However, at the same time, naive spawning of concurrency isn't
helping anyone. The main worries that your proposal seems to address is
that when naively executing two expressions which mutate the same state in
parallel wherein that state mutation is not thread-safe (as in your
example of random), you may get a result that doesn't make sense.
I don't see how this really benefits us much, because the requirement for
serialized execution already removes makes such concurrent applications
illegal, and guarantees that the behavior of the system is the same in
threaded and non-threaded environments. Put another way, you shouldn't be
able to have an optimization that changes the way the code executes in
such a way that you can't duplicate it on a non-concurrent system. You
haven't eliminated the need for code analysis. We still don't know when to
parallelize stuff, and when not to. Many Schemes already track mutation
through their systems to know when a function is "dirty" or not. You are
proposing that the system use conservative optimizations already, so it
doesn't seem to be a problem to be conservative here, either.
In the case of your random example, both functions would dirty the same
state, and as such, executing them concurrently will lead to a potentially
unserializable result. So you can't optimize it. Done. If this random
function came from another module, you may know nothing about it. Fine,
you can't optimize it.
However, other cases can still be easily optimized. Fully transparent
functions, for example, that don't mutate state, can be parallelized
easily in the serialized model. Functions which dirty different state
spaces also can be done. This analysis can be done, and fast algorithms
exist that are able to work within similar domains. Function inlining, for
example, requires that you know whether a function may be mutated, and
hence not inlined. Still, the problem remains knowing when to make
execution concurrent. This isn't changed in ICS, and the way in which ICS
makes such analysis easier doesn't appear to me to be enough to warrant
its adoption in the Scheme standard.
You can't get around the problem of procedures existing in other modules,
and you can't reasonably do anything with those in either normal Scheme or
IC Scheme. You can't easily determine the best metrics for automatically
parallelizing in either ICS or Scheme, and so you have to be conservative
either way, and you can get a tight result. ICS doesn't change any of
this, unless I totally miss something. The only thing ICS seems to do is
shift responsibility of one problem (determining whether concurrent
execution is possible) that I think is possibly the easier of all the
problems here. Do we really want this? Can compilers do this for us? I
think so, but I'm prepared to be wrong, so please, lay it on me.
Aaron W. Hsu
--
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. -- C. S. Lewis
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