Ernie: As mystified as you may be ( I was primarily referring to your e-mail of yesterday, or two days ago now ) sometimes you say things that mystify me . Such as : I understand your preference for a full solution, but the reason I balk at that is the cost involved. The only way I can see to eliminate Islam entirely is forced conversion, and I refuse to countenance that level of coercion Hmmm. No idea how many times I must say it, but again, the idea is the opposite of forced conversion. " Opposite of." The plan, to call it that, might be characterized as a Billy Graham Crusade on steroids , but without Rev Graham and with a cast of the country's best scholars, all of the well informed people in the media ( there are some even if not nearly enough ) and even some elected officials such as Allen West, newly elected GOP Representative from Fla, African-American, military, colonel, and smart as hell. And it wouldn't hurt to have a major movie studio in one's corner. Think revival tent and the preacher telling everyone to get on board the Jesus train and if they don't they are headed straight for the Inferno. No-one in the crowd, not even the deacons, have machine guns at the ready, all set to open fire on the congregation if no-one answers the call. Well, THAT would be interesting, for sure, but not quite the idea. :-/ Maybe that's how you do things in your church, but somehow I doubt it. I'm sometimes very much a populist. The idea is persuasion, even rabble rousing, but nothing at all to do with violence. Not the first time you have pegged me for something very different. The ideal is simple : I have $ 50 billion to spend. I buy a huge media empire and create a new university based on the kinds of ideals we have discussed before. Maybe I sign up a decent sized contingent in the Congress and , of course, set up a major lobbying effort. Sure, not remotely possible as things are. But at least imagine what I'd do. Next order of business, is it possible to persuade others who do have parts of this media, etc system to get with the program ? One here, one there, a few someplace else, until something vaguely like this media system starts to take shape. Then, let 'er rip. Not a broadside from the battleship Missouri, but from 100 newspapers, 2 or 3 TV networks, etc, plus all of it backed up with the smartest researchers in the nation. THIS is the idea. I'll take 1% of that if I can get it. Even that would be enough to get going with enough clout to make a difference. As for the decimation of Christians in the Mid East, its actually fairly simple. Critical mass. Until the 20th century Christians still could be 10 % or 20 % of the population of some countries, even more, as in Lebanon. But 10 % is the danger zone, easy to pressure, and the minority can no longer defend itself. The numbers aren't there. But, yeah, externals always play a role. especially foreign occupation and a rising tide of nationalism. Plus, when applicable, economic crisis. However, think of most of sub-Saharan Africa. No Islam, or very little, and now it is Pentecostal everywhere, if not majorities, really large minorities. Heck, even under Communism there are --what ?-- about 100 million Christians in China This seems pretty clear, no Islam, and Christianity ( Buddhism in some cases, like China also ) can take off like a rocket. With Islam, relentless persecution as soon as numbers are small enough to crush. Even , in cases, when numbers still are high, like Bethlehem, once 80 % Christian, now under 20 %. Seems pretty clear to me. Billy ======================================================== message dated 1/30/2011 10:46:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Billy,
Sent from my iPhone On Jan 30, 2011, at 21:30, [email protected] wrote: > Ernie : > What strikes me is a tendency to gravitate to deductive logic when > discussing the prospects for reform in Islam. Huh? Not sure how you wrung that out of my comment. Still, let me ask a question that has bothered me: Islam may always have been evil, but the Christian communities being purged from Iraq and Egypt had survived for 1000 years. And the Ottoman Empire may have been thuggish, but I don't recall it being vastly worse than it's contemporaries. In short, things seem worse now than a century ago. Which implied modern Islamism seems to owe at least part of its virulence and intolerance to political and economic factors, in -addition- to theological ones. I'm not denying that Islamic theology is deeply incompatible with modernity. And I would love to see all Muslims worship a God with the character of Christ rather than that of Mohammad. And yes, creeping Shariah is a genuine and under-appreciated problem in the west. But just as it is foolish to ignore theology and view Islamic terrorism as the fruit of purely economic and political determinism, so it seems narrow to blame -all- of Islam's current ills and misbehavior -solely- on Islam itself. Yes, that may well be the root cause, but there should be ways to reduce the worst symptoms in the absence of a full cure. I agree that thoroughgoing reform is a long shot, but a detente of sorts with modernity seems at least conceivable, and necessary, if we are to coexist. I understand your preference for a full solution, but the reason I balk at that is the cost involved. The only way I can see to eliminate Islam entirely is forced conversion, and I refuse to countenance that level of coercion. So yes, I hold out the hope of moderating or containing Islam on deductive grounds, because the alternative is unthinkable. Previously, you made it sound like we could hope to get rid of Islam purely through strong moral argument. With your endorsement of deportation in your proposed amendment it sure sounds like you are prepared to cross that line and use the threat of physical force. So how far are you willing to go to rid the world of Islam? Is there anything you categorically won't do? And what happens if that level of force isn't enough? E -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
