Hi Chris:

Agree completely.

Kevin

"Development is fusion - individuation - differentiation - COMMITMENT. "

This tracks reasonably well with Erik Erikson's developmental theories. By
tacking on "commitment" we start to see Erikson's stage of young adulthood
which is...

Intimacy vs. isolation - This development usually happens during young
adulthood, which is between the ages of 20 to 24. Dating, marriage, family
and friendships are important during the stage in their life. By
successfully forming loving relationships with other people, individuals are
able to experience love and intimacy. Those who fail to form lasting
relationships may feel isolated and alone.  (modified from Wikipedia)

If we stop our development at individuation, we lose the essential
sociological/anthropological step that has allowed for the successful
propagation of the species.

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dr. Ernie Prabhakar
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 9:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: love vs. freedom Re: this myth of rationality Re: [RC]
Libertarian Logic

Hi Kevin,

On Nov 5, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Kevin Kervick wrote:
But if we are talking about adults here, and inter-familial connection
then we should look at voluntary association rather than codependency or
coercion.

That's an interesting ideological perspective.  But is it supported by the
data, either historical or sociological?

Historically, not very much. Early kingdoms largely functioned as extended
families -- actually, clans *are* extended families.  Early religion the
same way.  Yes, people can join voluntarily -- just like people join a
family through marriage or adoption (well, semi-voluntary) -- but once
inside, it is anything but egalitarian.

Sociologically, virtually no associations are a pure "free meeting of
equals". Every viable group has a functioning hierarchy, structure, roles,
and rules.  When we join the group, we surrender our freedom to act
disjointly from those roles. Yeah, the modern of idea of a social contract
between peers is a powerful one -- but it is still an abstraction, only
useful in certain circumstances.

And the issue of birth is hardly trivial. We inherit not just our culture, but vast amounts of resources from the society we are born into. Does that
convey no obligation whatsoever?

I would that that voluntary choices *modify* what we inherit, but what we
are born into is actually far more critical in the vast majority of cases.
You surely know that as a psychologist -- why wouldn't it be true socially?

In family therapy we promote psychological differentiation - the
capacity to be both seperate and connected simultaneously. Development is
fusion - individuation - differentiation.  That process starts at birth.
So, I'd argue that individuality is a requisite capacity that enables true
communion with others.  That is why many community/religious traditions
believe baptism into the fold can only occur after one reaches the age of
consent - in most traditions that occurs in late adolescence or early
adulthood.

Baptism is  great metaphor, which points out the flaw in your model.
Development is fusion - individuation - differentiation - COMMITMENT.  You
can't ignore that last part, or you'll never create a next generation.

Like I said, you sure sound like you don't have kids. I fear it is more than
coincidence that most philosophers (starting with Socrates) were lousy
fathers. Raising children puts all our philosophical theories to the tests -- and most don't survive. And if we can't even figure out how to raise our
kids, how in hell can we figure out how to elevate civilization?

-- Ernie P.

P.S. Gotta go put my money where my mouth is -- my son just stole my iPhone,
and my daughter is turning one today...

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Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community
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Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org

--
Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]>
Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism
Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org

--
Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community 
<[email protected]>
Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism
Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org

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