Chris : I share your sentiments. Especially since I like Kevin as a person and respect the things he has done with his life. However, Ron Paul all the time, or nearly so, really got to be super-irritating and now that a "Paul scandal" is starting to break, it seemed to me to be important to make it clear that RC has zero association with Paul's racism --and what seems to be a form of anti-Semitism. Those kinds of things are completely unacceptable. And for all of the RP material that has hit our in-boxes in recent weeks, it was time to say something. Mine is just one voice, but it is the one voice I have control over and it was time to speak up. When will the doodoo hit the media fan ? For now all the talk is about the mess that the House GOP has delivered unto the electorate. But there have been some TV comments already. No telling when this will become more of a focus of attention, but the blogosphere is filled with stuff now. Billy ------------------------------------------------------- 12/21/2011 8:48:33 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
I hope to see you back soon Kevin. I believe that the radical in radical centrism doesn’t work unless we stretch ourselves with ideas from others that might be incongruous with our own. It has been enlightening to see your posts, and how they compare and contrast with others on the list. Chris ------------------------------------------ Christopher P. Hahn, Ph.D. Constructive Agreement, LLC [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) P.O. Box 39, Bozeman, MT 59771 (406) 522-4143 (406) 556-7116 fax ------------------------------------------ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kevin Kervick Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [RC] [ RC ] Military Expansionism & etc etc That gives one a very clear idea where you are coming from Billy. We can agree to disagree but it seems that the common sense conservatism I am talking about is not compatible with radical centrism as you envision that brand to be. These conversations are helpful in clarifying ideas and allegiances. I've learned some things and also hope that I have offered some alternative ideas for folks here to ponder. I too am going to be very busy and already behind on these e-mails. So, I will unsubscribe. regards, kevin Since Christmas is closing in fast, my time for responding to e-mails will be severely limited for the next week. All that I can say about TR for now, Re: Your comments below, is that the politics of the early 1900s is not the best way for me to spend the time that is available to me just now. I will say that it is a good thing that TR saw to it that the Panama Canal was built, that he brokered the Russo-Japanese peace deal, that he busted the trusts, that he took full advantage of the situation when war with Spain broke out, that he expanded the national park system, that he strengthened the Navy, and on and on. About his racialism, the question to ask is who, in that era, was not similarly disposed ? Wilson was far worse, for example. And if you really want to turn back the clock, Jefferson and Washington owned slaves. Furthermore, demonizing TR is over the top and, from an RC perspective, is an attack on Radical Centrist principles. Not because TR was perfect but because he was a leader like few other presidents in US history, because he was as honest as it is reasonable to expect any president to be, because he provides the best available model , so far, of a serious attempt to create a viable 3rd party to break the Democratic / Republican stranglehold on US politics. Furthermore, he was a polymath, was one of the smartest presidents in history, certainly one of the top 5, willing to think about cultural issues, not only economics, and an exemplar of American virtues. It is with plenty of good reason that, I think, by common consensus, TR is a model for an RC presidency, someone respected by those of us who are actual Radical Centrists. In effect, this attack on TR is an attack on our most respected founding father. Not something I can possibly be silent about. Billy 12/21/2011 5:01:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: As I pointed out in a previous post there is evidence that Teddy Roosevelt had a fondness for the Japanese people whom he believed were superior to all other nation/tribes in Asia. In the late 19th Century TR called blacks a "perfectly stupid people". He believed China was declining and the US could use its big stick to divide up China with Japan - thus keeping it away from Russia. In 1905 TR empowered Japan (first at a treaty signing that was held in Portsmouth, NH at a place I can see from my window) to expand throughout Asia. That imperial decision set the stage for the Japanese expansion that FDR would later disavor. The Roosevelts, it appears are not what Progressive propoganda wants us to believe about them. Ron Paul's non-interventionism is a direct challenge to the big stick imperialism and social engineering that began in the Progressive Era. This was a time that bigger than life men had decided they could control human destiny and the course of history. This history is difficult for most Americans because it does not place our leaders in a very good light. And it causes us to be more cynical about one the most cherished aspects of our heritage, our involvment in the World Wars of the 20th Century. It hurts the psyche. About the 2009 book, The Imperial Cruise: A Secret History of Empire and War. James Bradley _http://hnn.us/articles/121083.html_ (http://hnn.us/articles/121083.html) Let’s talk more about Theodore Roosevelt’s far East policy in the early 20th century laying the basis for World War 2. What’s the connection? There was forty years separating them from each other. How did what Teddy Roosevelt did in 1905 lay the basis for this horrific war in the 1940s? People ask, ‘How could something that occurred in 1905 have repercussions forty years later? Well, Ken Burns just did a documentary on TV about the National Park system. Apparently if you walk into a national park you’re supposed to feel that Teddy Roosevelt had a lot to do with it a hundred years ago. I have a friend who’s writing a book on Theodore Roosevelt’s helping to create American football. If you watch the Super Bowl this year, you’re watching something that Theodore Roosevelt influenced. What Theodore Roosevelt did not only reverberated forty years later but is still reverberating. This is an important President at a fulcrum moment in history, 1905. Roosevelt says to the Japanese, I trust that you’re different than rest of Asia. My racial theories tell me this. You are more like Americans. We’ve got a problem in north Asia. China’s collapsing and we do not want the Russians to fill that void. Congress will not give me the troops I would like to use America’s big stick there in that beautiful rich part of north Asia. So what am I going to do? So Roosevelt said to himself, I’m going to partner with the Japanese army and the British navy. The three of us are going to push back the Russians and take over China. He did not advocate liberty and freedom for China. You see the significance of that? He called the Portsmouth Peace Treaty negotiations, that sat down to negotiate their differences. They were dividing up a map of China and he didn’t invite China. There’s no repercussions of something like that? Hosting a peace conference dividing up China, China asking, ‘can we come’ and Roosevelt saying, No! You’ve got nothing to say about the future of your country. Yeah, it has repercussions, I think still today. I think that it is indisputable that the problem in WW2 that my Dad was sent to help extinguish was Japan going into Asia. They said in their declaration of war that the problem is Britain and America want to control Asia and we’re Asians, and we’re going to control it. Japan’s going to control it themselves. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > Google Group: _http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism_ (http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism) Radical Centrism website and blog: _http://RadicalCentrism.org_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/) -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > Google Group: _http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism_ (http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism) Radical Centrism website and blog: _http://RadicalCentrism.org_ (http://RadicalCentrism.org) -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
