Hi Billy,

On Aug 30, 2013, at 9:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>  I thought I had heard it all before, but this takes the prize.
> Well worth some serious research in the future…

Very interesting.   Like any complex system, it is possible to derive 
significant benefit from a particular subsystem.   Religious practices have 
always a certain value independent of religious belief (e.g., the communal 
benefits of belonging to a church).  Conversely, religious beliefs (like modern 
Unitarian-deism) underly much of our scientific and political structures, even 
though they are divorced from actual religious practices.

What the reductionists tend to overlook, though, is that reducing a complex 
system to a simple subsystem renders it sterile.   Ritual prayer works great 
for him as a psychological crutch; but he has no metaphysic enabling him to go 
beyond that to the kind of world-changing prayer and faith we see in 
cutting-edge innovators, such as Martin Luther King, Jr.

-- Ernie P.

> BR
>  
> ====================================
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> W Post
> Is faith the world’s most effective placebo?
> 
> By Sigfried Gold, Published: August 28 , 2013
> 
>  
> My 15 minutes of fame, courtesy of an article in the Washington Post 
> featuring me as an atheist who prays to an invented God in order to 
> facilitate my participation in a 12-step recovery program, provoked a little 
> tempest in the teapot of atheist blog postings and commentary. My fellow 
> atheists have suggested, not always politely, that I’m not an atheist, that 
> I’m not really praying, and that praying is not acceptable behavior for 
> atheists. As politely as I can manage, I would like to defend myself on all 
> three counts.
> To the charge of not being an atheist, I reply that, while I do pray to a 
> figment of my imagination that I sometimes call God, I completely reject 
> supernatural explanations for why things happen in the world and in my life. 
> I use purely psychological explanations to understand the effects I notice as 
> a result of my prayers. I would ask those who want to boot me out of the 
> atheist camp to explain what qualifications are needed beyond a rejection of 
> the supernatural. Is there some code of mental conduct for atheists that I 
> have managed to violate? Could I be reinstated as an atheist by admitting 
> that I’m not really praying? Atheist blogger Herb Silverman on the electronic 
> pages of the Washington Post says, “Atheist prayers sound a lot like what I 
> would call focusing or meditating, which some also view as a transcendent or 
> spiritual experience.”
> 
> My daily regimen includes 30 to 45 of meditation in addition to prayer, so 
> when I claim to be praying it’s not because I just don’t know the difference. 
> Meditation involves various forms of relaxing or focusing the mind, focusing 
> at times on the breath, physical sensations, thoughts, sounds, etc. Insofar 
> as mental speech arises in meditation, it arises as a phenomenon to be 
> observed, not as an intentional activity. Prayer, on the other hand, is 
> intentional speech, silent or aloud, addressing a benevolent listener who is 
> not physically present. Recitation or chanting of mantras or repeated prayers 
> form a gray area between meditation or prayer, but outside this gray area, 
> the two are clearly distinguished by the active use of speech, not by belief 
> in the entity addressed when speech is used.
> 
> Silverman goes on to say, “Although an argument can be made to do whatever 
> works for you, reality works best for me. I don’t need imaginary friends—nor 
> do most reality-based people.”
> 
> Now, I can’t claim to speak for all non-reality-based people, but I don’t 
> need imaginary friends, either. I lived for 45 years without them. I just 
> happened to find that when I started talking to an imaginary friend, certain 
> struggles began to evaporate. It became easier to act according to my 
> conscience.
> 
> When I started, I had a logical reason for praying to a nonexistent God: I 
> could see clear evidence that a bunch of people in my 12-step program were 
> succeeding at losing and keeping off remarkable amounts of weight while 
> simultaneously gaining a newfound sense of serenity, happiness and freedom. I 
> wanted what those people had; I was willing to do what they had done. So, 
> when they told me to get on my knees and start asking God for help, I did. It 
> didn’t change my conviction that God doesn’t exist, it just changed my 
> practices.
> 
> Many people, performing the same experiment, have concluded that if the 
> praying works, God must exist. I didn’t do that. I had read a lot of 
> philosophy and psychology and decided that I could explain what was happening 
> without falling back on supernatural beings or events. I was familiar with, 
> among other things, studies showing that placebos can work even when patients 
> know they are taking them.
> 
> We are all aware of the power of belief, but not everyone realizes how 
> flexible this power is. Much can be accomplished by believing in the power of 
> belief itself. This is not self-hypnotism or self-delusion. It is consciously 
> making use of a scientifically demonstrable feature of the mind. If making 
> use of recent scientific knowledge to improve one’s life is not acceptable 
> behavior for an atheist, I don’t know what is.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community 
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> Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
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