If was an apprentice at most places of employment He would wear a uniform. I train young men as automotive tech and they all wear uniforms. If a young men came to work in camo uniform he would be sent home to change or get a new job. Because as a service center we should be professional, look professional and have pride in what we do. ----- Original Message ----- From: Star'Eyed Drifter Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: WWJD? [RR] Camo uniforms?
*Course, If Jesus was a young Isreali apprentice carpenter..
today he just might wear army suplus BDU's to work<G>
Doc
--- Jeff & Ellrena Ortner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The item sent from a email Scout page is not what we trying to promote,
> it
> is a understanding of the problems that could, do and will happen at
> camps.
> WE DO NOT go by BSA standards, but we do glean from over 100 years of
> experience. If not, look at the resources of where our Royal Rangers
> leaders
> manual came from, and read the credits were we got our information. I
> too
> don't go y scout rules of BSA but I have to agree with Ronnie Franklin
> about Camo's and para-military looks today. Setting the right image to a
> lost world is very important, Using fatigues is not camo, and solid
> colors
> is what we use as a summer wear. Khaki 6-pocket fatigues, many of the
> boys
> wear the hiking pants that look just like them. I see nothing wrong
> wearing
> this as it doesn't portray a military style look.
> CAMO DOES and WILL cause people to take a second curious look at
> what
> kind of group you are. I see no good in wearing shirts or pants in
> camo
> colors for class C, D, or F uniforms.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jonathan Marcantel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 PM
> Subject: [Leaders] Re: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group
>
>
> > Gentlemen-
> >
> > Far be it for me to assert my opinion- for I have been in Rangers for
> only
> > just over 2 years (as a Pioneer Cdr.) Why are we using BSA guidelines
> to
> > argue (for or against) uniform regs in Rangers? Here's my take on
> this
> > subject.
> >
> > I feel that wearing BDU pants during Rangers is ok; we prefer the boys
> to
> > wear their khakis, however, Calcasieu Parish (Louisiana is governed by
> > Napoleonic Code, not Common Law, hence parish) School Board instituted
> a
> > dress code for K-12th grades. The uniform pants are blue or khaki
> with
> > white, green or blue shirt. Anyway, alot of my boys only have 2 pair
> of
> > khaki pants that they own- they use them for school and for Rangers.
> > Therefore, we allow the boys to wear Class A, B, or C uniforms to the
> > meetings. Class C as I can best remember (cant quote- @ school and my
> LM
> is
> > at the house) is Blue jeans or BDU pants with Ranger Tshirt. So
> here's my
> > point: why use BSA stuff to govern Rangers?! THIS IS NOT BOY SCOUTS!
> WE
> ARE
> > ROYAL RANGERS. There is a BIG difference, right from the get go. And
> > before you ask, I was in Boy Scouts as a kid. So please, if you are
> going
> > to continue to use BSA references, stop, look it up in your Royal
> Rangers
> > Leaders Manual (that every commander should own a copy of...ours were
> > provided with our training material during LTC) and quote from there.
> And
> > while I am ranting, didnt we have this same discussion about quoting
> BSA
> > regs instead of RR regs awhile back?? BSA regs on uniforms have NO
> bearing
> > WHATSOEVER on our Royal Ranger uniform regs.
> >
> > Thanks for lettimg me rant,
> >
> > Jonathan Marcantel
> > Pioneer Cdr.
> > OP 109
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Jeff Ortner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group
> > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Received: from [209.48.241.70] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
> > MHotMailBE97F64B00A740043752D130F14607C50; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:01
> -0700
> > Received: from ace.htcomp.net (ace.htcomp.net [207.17.189.146]) by
> > mailsvr-2.itexas.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.1.219) with ESMTP id
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> Tue, 30
> > Apr 2002 09:39:08 -0500
> > Received: from htcomp.net (unverified [127.0.0.1]) by ace.htcomp.net
> > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 5.2.3) with ESMTP id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> Tue,
> 30
> > Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500
> > From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:58 -0700
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 1, 3
> > X-EM-Registration: #00E0620610781F002A20
> > X-Priority: 3
> > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Read this and do agree with it too concerning Rangers in the same
> > boat about Camo clothing. Thet have a few stinks too,
> >
> > Camouflage/Military Uniforms and Scouting
> >
> > Hi Scouters!
> > This is a LONG POSTING because the questions and the followups
> > deserved to be answered as completely as possible. I've also kept
> > Mike Craig's original question as well as the e-mail addresses to
> > others who contributed to the answering of this question while I have
> > them.
> >
> > Mike Craig wrote and asked on rec.scouting.usa:
> >
> > We have had three scouts families join our troop in the last 2 months
> > from troops based on military bases. All three fathers were/are
> > registered adults, one of the adults still wears his district
> > commissioner shirt. All have told our troop committee that wearing
> > military camouflage pants and jackets is acceptable within the BSA
> > policy. Our troop is not stationed on any base, and several other
> > adults are questioning this 'policy'.
> >
> > Mike:
> >
> > Your "District Commissioner" guy is lying.
> >
> > Out and out, he's lying.
> >
> > The Boy Scouts of America does NOT approve of ANY camo clothing for
> > wear by youth members nor adults at ANY TIME.
> >
> > The immediate reference to this is found in the first pages of the
> > BSA's Insignia Guide where it states that "imitation of military
> > uniforms and clothing is not permitted under the BSA's Charter and
> > Bylaws and in accordance with federal law relating to the wear of
> > that clothing." (those aren't the exact words, but it's close enough
> > to the exact words; later, I'll find the exact wording and post
> > it...).
> >
> > I AM a military officer, Mike, and I also served as a former District
> > Commissioner. I KNOW that some "army people" will want to wear "army
> > gear" to give the BSA program some sort of "specialness" they think
> > isn't there already in the program. What I tell them, besides that
> > it's illegal under FEDERAL LAW (and the Uniform Code of Military
> > Justice, which gets their attention REALLY QUICKLY!), is that this is
> > like a soldier showing up for work in a pair of Scout pants and a BDU
> > (Battle Dress Uniform, the "work uniform" of the Army) shirt.
> >
> > There has been NO MOVE, no discussion, not even any kind of
> > consideration toward wearing ANY form of camoed gear by Scouts,
> > Explorers/Venturers, or Scouters.
> >
> > Just to let the guy know, Mike: In 1996, two Scouters wearing camoed
> > pants and a Scouts shirt were REFUSED ENTRY into a Council Camporee
> > by the Scout Executive of that Council. The Scout Executive informed
> > them of the BSA's uniforming policy and told them that unless they
> > choose to be in compliance with that policy, they would not be
> > allowed entry into the Camporee. One adult complied; the other adult
> > re-asserted his personal right to wear whatever the hell he wanted to
> > wear. The Scout Executive simply said "fine", both Scouters went into
> > the camp facility.
> >
> > An hour later, the Scout Executive, accompanied by the local County
> > sheriff, served the Scouter still wearing the camo gear with a
> > "letter of membership denial", and advised him that since he is no
> > longer a registered member of the BSA, that his presence on the
> > campground is no longer welcomed. He was given 15 minutes to pack out
> > his gear, and he and his son (because the man said "If I go, my son
> > goes too...") was escorted off the camp property by the law
> > enforcement people.
> >
> > The message THAT Scout Executive, in central Alabama (the home to
> > hunters, trappers and outdoorsmen of all persuasions) gave was that
> > "there's no place in the BSA for militaristic uniforming."
> >
> > So, Mike, you might want to share this little tidbit of information
> > with your "former District Commissioner" friend and let him know....
> >
> > The same statement found in the Charter and Bylaws is found in the
> > BSA's Insignia Guide.
> >
> > It does NOT matter, Mike, if the person used to be a Scouter in
> > Europe or Asia. The SAME policy applies for Scouters there as they do
> > for Scouters in the States. I have been a Scouter in Europe for many
> > years, and I can tell you that we in Scouting Europe are even MORE
> > hard-nosed about the wearing of camo than our peers in the States
> > are...because we're there and are aware of the possible "mixed
> > message" that wearing such things can produce among our "host
> > nations" and their Scouting associations.
> >
> > Other then the Handbook, where can I find the documented Policy for
> > the BSA uniform? Is a copy of this document on the web? Do the BSA
> > Policy or Guidelines specifically address camouflage clothing? If so,
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
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