The item sent from a email Scout page is not what we trying to promote, it
is a understanding of the problems that could, do and will happen at camps.
WE DO NOT go by BSA standards, but we do glean from over 100 years of
experience. If not, look at the resources of where our Royal Rangers leaders
manual came from, and read the credits were we got our information. I too
don't go y scout rules of BSA but I have to agree with Ronnie Franklin
about Camo's and para-military looks today. Setting the right image to a
lost world is very important, Using fatigues is not camo, and solid colors
is what we use as a summer wear. Khaki 6-pocket fatigues, many of the boys
wear the hiking pants that look just like them. I see nothing wrong wearing
this as it doesn't portray a military style look.
CAMO DOES and WILL cause people to take a second curious look at what
kind of group you are. I see no good in wearing shirts or pants in camo
colors for class C, D, or F uniforms.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Marcantel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: [Leaders] Re: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group
> Gentlemen-
>
> Far be it for me to assert my opinion- for I have been in Rangers for only
> just over 2 years (as a Pioneer Cdr.) Why are we using BSA guidelines to
> argue (for or against) uniform regs in Rangers? Here's my take on this
> subject.
>
> I feel that wearing BDU pants during Rangers is ok; we prefer the boys to
> wear their khakis, however, Calcasieu Parish (Louisiana is governed by
> Napoleonic Code, not Common Law, hence parish) School Board instituted a
> dress code for K-12th grades. The uniform pants are blue or khaki with
> white, green or blue shirt. Anyway, alot of my boys only have 2 pair of
> khaki pants that they own- they use them for school and for Rangers.
> Therefore, we allow the boys to wear Class A, B, or C uniforms to the
> meetings. Class C as I can best remember (cant quote- @ school and my LM
is
> at the house) is Blue jeans or BDU pants with Ranger Tshirt. So here's my
> point: why use BSA stuff to govern Rangers?! THIS IS NOT BOY SCOUTS! WE
ARE
> ROYAL RANGERS. There is a BIG difference, right from the get go. And
> before you ask, I was in Boy Scouts as a kid. So please, if you are going
> to continue to use BSA references, stop, look it up in your Royal Rangers
> Leaders Manual (that every commander should own a copy of...ours were
> provided with our training material during LTC) and quote from there.
And
> while I am ranting, didnt we have this same discussion about quoting BSA
> regs instead of RR regs awhile back?? BSA regs on uniforms have NO
bearing
> WHATSOEVER on our Royal Ranger uniform regs.
>
> Thanks for lettimg me rant,
>
> Jonathan Marcantel
> Pioneer Cdr.
> OP 109
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Jeff Ortner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Received: from [209.48.241.70] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
> MHotMailBE97F64B00A740043752D130F14607C50; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:01 -0700
> Received: from ace.htcomp.net (ace.htcomp.net [207.17.189.146]) by
> mailsvr-2.itexas.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.1.219) with ESMTP id
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 30
> Apr 2002 09:39:08 -0500
> Received: from htcomp.net (unverified [127.0.0.1]) by ace.htcomp.net
> (Rockliffe SMTPRA 5.2.3) with ESMTP id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue,
30
> Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:58 -0700
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 1, 3
> X-EM-Registration: #00E0620610781F002A20
> X-Priority: 3
> Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Read this and do agree with it too concerning Rangers in the same
> boat about Camo clothing. Thet have a few stinks too,
>
> Camouflage/Military Uniforms and Scouting
>
> Hi Scouters!
> This is a LONG POSTING because the questions and the followups
> deserved to be answered as completely as possible. I've also kept
> Mike Craig's original question as well as the e-mail addresses to
> others who contributed to the answering of this question while I have
> them.
>
> Mike Craig wrote and asked on rec.scouting.usa:
>
> We have had three scouts families join our troop in the last 2 months
> from troops based on military bases. All three fathers were/are
> registered adults, one of the adults still wears his district
> commissioner shirt. All have told our troop committee that wearing
> military camouflage pants and jackets is acceptable within the BSA
> policy. Our troop is not stationed on any base, and several other
> adults are questioning this 'policy'.
>
> Mike:
>
> Your "District Commissioner" guy is lying.
>
> Out and out, he's lying.
>
> The Boy Scouts of America does NOT approve of ANY camo clothing for
> wear by youth members nor adults at ANY TIME.
>
> The immediate reference to this is found in the first pages of the
> BSA's Insignia Guide where it states that "imitation of military
> uniforms and clothing is not permitted under the BSA's Charter and
> Bylaws and in accordance with federal law relating to the wear of
> that clothing." (those aren't the exact words, but it's close enough
> to the exact words; later, I'll find the exact wording and post
> it...).
>
> I AM a military officer, Mike, and I also served as a former District
> Commissioner. I KNOW that some "army people" will want to wear "army
> gear" to give the BSA program some sort of "specialness" they think
> isn't there already in the program. What I tell them, besides that
> it's illegal under FEDERAL LAW (and the Uniform Code of Military
> Justice, which gets their attention REALLY QUICKLY!), is that this is
> like a soldier showing up for work in a pair of Scout pants and a BDU
> (Battle Dress Uniform, the "work uniform" of the Army) shirt.
>
> There has been NO MOVE, no discussion, not even any kind of
> consideration toward wearing ANY form of camoed gear by Scouts,
> Explorers/Venturers, or Scouters.
>
> Just to let the guy know, Mike: In 1996, two Scouters wearing camoed
> pants and a Scouts shirt were REFUSED ENTRY into a Council Camporee
> by the Scout Executive of that Council. The Scout Executive informed
> them of the BSA's uniforming policy and told them that unless they
> choose to be in compliance with that policy, they would not be
> allowed entry into the Camporee. One adult complied; the other adult
> re-asserted his personal right to wear whatever the hell he wanted to
> wear. The Scout Executive simply said "fine", both Scouters went into
> the camp facility.
>
> An hour later, the Scout Executive, accompanied by the local County
> sheriff, served the Scouter still wearing the camo gear with a
> "letter of membership denial", and advised him that since he is no
> longer a registered member of the BSA, that his presence on the
> campground is no longer welcomed. He was given 15 minutes to pack out
> his gear, and he and his son (because the man said "If I go, my son
> goes too...") was escorted off the camp property by the law
> enforcement people.
>
> The message THAT Scout Executive, in central Alabama (the home to
> hunters, trappers and outdoorsmen of all persuasions) gave was that
> "there's no place in the BSA for militaristic uniforming."
>
> So, Mike, you might want to share this little tidbit of information
> with your "former District Commissioner" friend and let him know....
>
> The same statement found in the Charter and Bylaws is found in the
> BSA's Insignia Guide.
>
> It does NOT matter, Mike, if the person used to be a Scouter in
> Europe or Asia. The SAME policy applies for Scouters there as they do
> for Scouters in the States. I have been a Scouter in Europe for many
> years, and I can tell you that we in Scouting Europe are even MORE
> hard-nosed about the wearing of camo than our peers in the States
> are...because we're there and are aware of the possible "mixed
> message" that wearing such things can produce among our "host
> nations" and their Scouting associations.
>
> Other then the Handbook, where can I find the documented Policy for
> the BSA uniform? Is a copy of this document on the web? Do the BSA
> Policy or Guidelines specifically address camouflage clothing? If so,
> where can I find this information?
>
> and Big Chris wrote:
>
> Usually, I defer to your knowledge, but this is a bit out of left
> field for you Mike.
>
> Sorry you think so, Big Chris, but the fact of the matter is that the
> BSA has established uniform policy and standards.
>
> Camoed pants and shirts (whether or not they have the nametapes on
> them or not) and whether they are purchased at a military clothing
> goods store or at an "Army-Navy store" are NOT one of the standards
> for ANYONE in the BSA's programs. It is not an appropriate uniform,
> nor is it a personal option. If we are going to do Scouting, let's at
> least look the part of Scouts and Scouters.
>
> Jean pants, I can see...the earlier Scouts wore dungarees and shirts
> until they could afford the pants and leggings. Other pants, again, I
> can see until they can get the official pair. Jackets...again, I can
> see wearing what Mom and Dad got you as an outdoor jacket to "play
> rough" in and to keep you warm. But a Camoed jacket isn't an option
> to wear with the Scout uniform. They don't mix.
>
> CAMOED pants and shirts, I don't see at all...even until they can get
> the official pair. They don't mix and presents a negative image of
> Scouting and Scouts.
>
> A couple other points:
>
> You wrote in part:
>
> I don't think many people will mistake a group for 14 year olds in
> the woods for the US Marines.
>
> Not necessarily the Marines, Chris, but as part of a paramilitary
> group (which the BSA is trying hard to distance themselves from!).
> Surely you don't want your son and his friends being associated with
> the "Young Klan"....
>
> No, we don't hunt, but there is nothing wrong with blending in with
> our surroundings, in fact I prefer that over a troop running around
> in hot pink.
>
> Why? Why are we trying to 'blend into our surroundings', Chris?? Even
> with our earlier uniform -- the green khaki uniforms didn't readily
> blend in with the outdoor surroundings (it did a better job than the
> current khaki-tan shirts do), but we were not concerned with
> "blending in" back then, so why should we do it now??
>
> Are we in Scouting "trying to hide what we're doing" in the woods??
> No. We want people to see our program and what we're doing....so,
> there's NO need to camouflage any aspect of our outdoor program!
>
> ...and finally....
>
> I can choose to wear whichever I want, the GSS (Guide to Safe
> Scouting) does not limit the colors or patterns one might wear.
>
> No, it doesn't, Chris...but the Rules and Regulations (I previously
> stated that this was in the Charter and Bylaws) of the BSA does limit
> you.
>
> Here's the official statement:
>
> "BSA Rules and Regulations, Article X, Section 4, Clause 4.
> Prohibition of Alteration or Imitation:
>
> a). No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as
> described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations
> covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations
> thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting
> official or local Council or any local executive board or committee,
> except the National Executive Board after consideration by the
> Program Group Committee.
>
> b) Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps or Air Force
> uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of Act of
> Congress, approved June 3, 1916."
>
> And JW Walker wrote in part:
>
> I think we now need the benefit of seeing the actual written BSA
> guidelines concerning "civilian" camo....
>
> Me too, JW. The BSA doesn't address "civilian camo" in anything
> except written memorandum to Scout Executives concerning "camouflage
> clothing worn by Scouts and Scouters" (the last copy of such a item I
> have was dated November 1994 and was signed by the former Program
> Group Director now Chief Scout Executive).
>
> As part of the memorandum, it talks about the Insignia Guide being
> updated to reflect the emphasis...but I have three copies of the
> Insignia Guide here in my hotel room, and all three doesn't address
> "civilian camo" like "hunting gear" even though Mr. Williams'
> memorandum does address "hunting and military-style clothing and
> equipment" in the memorandum.
>
> He states that "hunting and military-style clothing, combined with or
> worn instead of the official Boy Scout or Explorer uniform, are not
> acceptable wear during any Boy Scouting or Exploring activity. Scout
> Executives are to instruct unit leaders and volunteers that those
> articles of clothing along with equipment like pistol belts,
> suspenders and military field gear are not allowed to be worn with
> official Boy Scouts of America clothing or in the place of BSA
> uniforms and outdoor clothing." (I wish that someone will dig out
> that copy and send it to the Chief and tell him to please post in in
> the new edition of the Insignia Guide.....I think it's pretty clear
> but it's not out there where everyone can read and go by it....)
>
> I can only post what the Rules and Regulations state, and it doesn't
> address "hunting camo" or "military gear", but DOES make a point of
> talking about uniforming which is clearly "military", as the poster
> asked about.
>
> Does the BSA National policy on camo pants list them as "prohibited"
> or are they "discouraged"?...
>
> I posted the exact wording, JW...it can't be any clearer than that.
> We in the BSA DO NOT WEAR MILITARY-STYLE CLOTHING as part of our
> uniforms.
>
> As to your account of a Council Executive "banning a Scouter for
> life" and throwing his son out of a Camporee.. I would love to see
> the complete story...
>
> First, the facts are that the Scouter was given a "letter of denial
> of membership". Not "banned for life". The letter of denial of
> membership offers that Scouter an opportunity to appeal that decision
> through the Region and if necessary, through the BSA's National
> Executive Board. As I wrote, the Scouter was then escorted off the
> property by the local law enforcement personnel acting at the behest
> of the Council's Scout Executive.
>
> Second, the man's son was NOT "thrown out of the camp"; he left with
> Daddy when Daddy was being escorted off the property because Daddy
> didn't want him there anymore.
>
> Third, the rules (including the prohibition on the wearing/usage of
> camouflaged clothing) was in the materials sent to every unit prior
> to the Camporee...and those two Scouters I am sure were not the only
> ones asked to change....most did once they understood what the "deal
> was". This guy was determined to have his own way no matter what the
> "rules are"...and like you, I am sure that the Council's Scout
> Executive used an appropriate level of tact when explaining and
> asking the two Scouters to please change their clothing before coming
> into the camp. I am positive that this guy didn't immediately "fly
> off the handle" and say "it's my way or the highway...."
>
> Fourth, the same weekend as the Camporee, *another organization which
> uses camouflaged materials as a uniform* was holding a similar type
> event close by. The Council was aware of it, which is why the Scout
> Executive was present at the Camporee.
>
> I am sure that if you contact someone in the Central Alabama Council
> whom was there when the Council was the Tennessee Valley Area Council
> (I believe that was the name of the Huntsville, AL Council before
> it's merger), they can probably give you lots more detail. It was a
> big deal back then.....
>
> Do I REALLY have to say this again?? I guess so....
>
> A SCOUT EXECUTIVE (not your District Executive, but the Council's
> Scout Executive or Council Executive) can remove ANY REGISTERED
> SCOUTER from the BSA for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER ("I don't like you;
> you're a troublemaker; you are not a "team player"; you do not follow
> the Scout Oath and Law....") for ANY PERIOD OF TIME (two weeks, a
> month, six months, forever...) AT ANY TIME.
>
> He or she does NOT need a "hearing" to determine whether or not to
> remove you; he or she does NOT have to contact National to do this
> (although most do as a matter of course and in the processing of the
> refund of your prorated registration fee).
>
> He or she simply has to complete two pieces of paper, faxing one copy
> to the BSA's Registration Service, and deliver the original to you in
> person or via registered mail the letter and that's it.
>
> Done. Finished. End of story. And if he or she feels that you will
> not cooperate appropriately, he or she can be accompanied by the
> Council's legal counsel and/or by law enforcement personnel.
>
> This is all written in the BSA's "Maintaining Standards of
> Membership" publication which every Scout Executive has and can use.
>
> Someone posted me privately and asked me "Does this mean that unless
> I show up wearing the COMPLETE SCOUT UNIFORM (pants, shirt, etc.), I
> stand the chance of being thrown out of Scouts?"
>
> NO.
>
> The BSA's policy is simple: we do NOT wear clothing which is
> associated with our military. It cannot be any simpler than that,
> folks. We don't wear "camo pants or shirts". We don't wear "camoed
> field jackets". We don't wear those military camo hats -- even if it
> has a BSA emblem on it.
>
> We have a uniform, and everyone should wear it. SHOULD is the
> operative word. If you show up at a Scouting event wearing jeans with
> your shirt, I feel that while some people will question your choice
> of clothing, nobody will throw you out of the program.
>
> But the BSA is VERY STRONG on its members wearing SCOUTING-LIKE
> CLOTHING as opposed to MILITARY-LIKE CLOTHING.
>
> WHY??
>
>
> *Paramilitary organizations -- and more closely, their "young adult
> organizations" tied to them -- wear camoed clothing. It doesn't take
> a rocket scientist to understand that there stands to be a bit of
> confusion, especially in locations in our country where those
> organizations freely (as they should be) organize and participate in
> local events and activities, between the BSA program and their "club"
> or "group". The BSA stands in part for equality, and this is the
> strongest reason why the BSA and some local Councils come down hard
> on people wearing such clothing during BSA events and activities.
>
> *It is against FEDERAL LAW. With all due respect to my peers over at
> rec.scouting.issues arguing about why the BSA doesn't follow "ALL
> federal laws", this is a no-brainer. This could get people placed IN
> JAIL, not just fined or slapped on the wrist. The law clearly states
> that only military people (active, reserve, guard, retirees) wear
> military clothing.
> A while back here, I posted a note in part based on what happened to
> some Scouts whom were wearing military-like clothing. The military
> police, looking for a deserter, saw the boy and his friends who bore
> the same description as the deserter. They detained all three boys
> and gave them the opportunity for their parents to come get them
> after they determined (a few hours) that "they were not deserters".
> Yes, that's a responsibility of our military police, working with
> local law enforcement, to have -- to find deserters and return them
> to military custody.
>
>
> *We don't hunt in the BSA. While some Venturing units may use
> handguns or rifles in their program, the BSA doesn't hunt. So, we
> don't need to "blend in with the woods" to do our program. (note: The
> Venturing program has an OPTION whereby Venturers working toward the
> Ranger Award, can indeed hunt. However, while hunter training is a
> part of the Venturing program, it is NOT a part of the Boy Scout,
> Varsity Scout, or Cub Scouting programs.)
>
> *It doesn't even MATCH. There's NOTHING in our khaki-tan uniform
> shirts which matches the woodland or desert patterns of military
> clothing. So why would you want to wear such clothing (I know, I
> know...it keeps you warmer than the BSA's stuff does. Good come-back.
> So find something which IS NOT CAMOED to wear instead if you feel
> that way).
>
> ONE MORE TIME, because I can just see my email box filling with
> "comments":
> The BSA (not Mike Walton) says "no military clothing". Our Sea
> Scouting program uses clothing approved by the Coast Guard and Navy
> and which is DISTINCTIVELY DIFFERENT from their uniforms. Their
> insignia is located in DIFFERENT PLACES than how we wear ours, and
> the color scheme is DIFFERENT. Our Venturing, Boy Scouting and Cub
> Scouting programs have NO NEED for "military clothing". And in
> Learning for Life/Exploring, those units associated with military
> installations or their units, wear clothing which is NOT CLOSE to the
> official military clothing worn by our Army, Air Force, Coast Guard,
> Navy, or Marine Corps.
>
> If you show up wearing jeans or chinos or Levi's (tm) pants, chances
> are very little will be said about it...uniforms ARE expensive and
> there ARE people whom cannot afford every bit of clothing the BSA
> puts out. Financial realities say you wear what you can afford to
> wear and most people will understand this and will do what they can
> to help you out. I've seen it happen here a lot and it should
> continue.
>
> But let's not trade in what is LAWFULLY WRONG with what's
> "comfortable and cheap"...again, with respect to the ongoing
> conversation going on down the hall in rec.scouting.issues, two
> wrongs don't make a right, and if there's a law on the books (the
> BSA's or in THE BOOKS), the BSA and it's membership does the best it
> can to uphold that law.
>
> The other Scouter, by the way, allowed entry into the campground
> area, changed into a pair of jeans; and Scout Executives DO have that
> power to remove anyone from the program at any time for any reason
> and all it takes is a phone call and a typewritten piece of paper to
> do it and its done.
>
> Mike Brown wrote and asked:
>
> So, what are the grounds for appeal, if the CE can remove you for any
> reason whatsoever?
>
> The underlying reason for denial of membership, Mike, is because "the
> person is not a suitable positive example of an adult using the Scout
> Oath and Law in his or her life". It's a judgemental personal
> character thing.
>
> So, to appeal to the Region or to National, one must demonstrate
> through written exhibits (one cannot appear before the appeal
> committee nor can he or she have legal or other representation to
> appear before the appeal committee) and testimonials that indeed you
> are a person of sound, moral character and that to the best of their
> knowledge, know that you try to abide by the Scouting ideals in your
> life as a Scouter and around young people.
>
> The appeal process is explained in a paragraph and a half in the
> letter of denial.
>
> Even though the BSA's own publications publish photos containing
> Scouts and Scouters wearing incomplete uniforms, uniforms with badges
> in wrong places and Scouters wearing military-style items - that does
> NOT denote "a change in policy". (Changes in official policy come
> down from National to our local Councils in written form.) "Anything
> goes to make a good action photo", one of the BSA's photographers
> commented to me way back when I asked about why they continue to take
> "action photos" of Scouts wearing "whatever". "It gives the idea that
> the uniform is secondary to the activity." It's hard to disagree with
> that statement, gang, but it's still one of my personal pet peeves of
> our Magazine and Editorial Divisions.
>
> I've already posted the BSA's policy as it is written in their
> publications. I've also provided separately a snippet from a BSA
> professional memoradum on the same subject. Additionally, Stephen
> Henning (a field professional posting from Pennsyvania) provided a
> similiar take on this on rec.scouting.usa about this topic:
>
> Stephen M. Henning wrote:
>
> Point: not all camo is military. Much is for sporting such as that
> for archers. More important points: no camo is appropriate for
> Scouting:
>
> 1) bright orange clothing is more appropriate than camo for safety.
> 2) uniformity is appropriate so that a Scout group is recognizable as
> a Scout group.
> 3) hunting is not an approved Scout activity.
> 4) military games are not approved Scout activities.
> 5) units that wear camo usually have much bigger problems than the
> camo. I have never seen a good troop wear camo, and I have seen many
> troops with serious problems wear camo. It is usually a symptom of a
> "boys club" that wants to use the name "Scouting" but doesn't use
> Scouting methods or Scouting principles and doesn't achieve Scouting
> aims.
>
>
> Finally, a Scouter wrote me privately and asked me (I'm leaving his
> name and location out...it doesn't matter who he is or where he's
> from...):
>
> You wrote and asked me:
>
> I am a Scoutmaster for a new Troop and we are trying to acquire
> uniforms for out Scouts. We have access to a large quantity of
> inexpensive unofficial shirts. The only real difference is BSA
> nametape, unofficial buttons, and slightly more khaki than beige
> color.
>
> In other words, these are surplus military shirts. Why haven't you
> asked your local Council to assist you in getting some "experienced"
> Scout shirts instead of trying to "create" a shirt from "TW" khaki
> shirts.
>
> There's several problems with the way you want to do this:
>
> First, the "Boy Scouts of America" strip isn't something you can
> order from the Supply Division. They are only manufactured with the
> stock Scout shirts. This means that you have to purchase or somehow
> get some tan shirts, remove the strips from those shirts, and attach
> them to your shirts. They are made also in a color combination which
> doesn't come close to the khaki color used on the shirts.
>
> Second, the pockets of the "TW" (tropical wear, or the khaki shirts
> used by the military in the past) are not of the same size and
> dimension of the BSA pockets. This is the most obvious "discovery"
> that the shirt isn't a BSA shirt.
>
> Third, while you can purchase the BSA buttons from the Supply
> Division (they come in a sewing kit), the buttonholes on the shirt
> are SMALLER than the Scout buttons by about a quarter-inch. That
> doesn't mean anything between you and me, but can cause some
> frustration for some kid trying to button the shirt and not realizing
> that a lot more pressure would have to be exerted on the button to
> get it through the smaller buttonhole.
>
> I can understand the financial situations that many of your Scouts
> may be under, but I also know from fact that if a kid wants a $5-10
> Scout shirt, then they can save the cash to get one. While new shirts
> cost between $12 and $19 (based on material), older shirts cost a lot
> less. As a matter of fact, I've got sitting beside me in my office
> here in the Pentagon a cotton and a polyblend small Scout shirt which
> I purchased for the patches via eBay for $16. ($8 per shirt).
>
> The other thing you need to do is to have a fund-raiser involving
> your Scouts with the purpose of purchasing Scout shirts. This too is
> where your local Council will come into play here...they can purchase
> the shirts under a reduced-price plan straight from the Supply
> Division (you can't do this on your own; it requires a signature from
> a field professional because they reduce the price based on the
> professional's "expense accounting code", which he or she has to
> provide). The fund-raiser also establishes the fact that you and your
> chartering organization are DEAD SERIOUS about organizing and
> supporting Scouting and the new Troop.
>
> When we "try to short-cut the program", it gives a definite message
> to the youth that other aspects of the program can be likewised
> "short-cutted" just because "we are who we are". If you ask your
> Scouts about this, they will tell you privately (or publicly) that
> "we want to do the same things that every other Scout has to do" and
> that means to raise or have their own, official Scout shirt. NOTHING,
> and I do mean NOTHING makes a child feel most inferior when *they
> know* that the clothing they are wearing are "knockoffs" of the real
> mccoys. They can deal with wearing "someone else' shirt" as long as
> its the SAME shirt that EVERYONE ELSE in Scouts is wearing (they can
> look in the mirror and see the same things that the books and the
> other kids have) but they can't deal with the teasing and stares and
> pointed fingers that they will get with "piecemeal uniforms."
>
> Ask your Council if they have "experienced" uniforms that they can
> loan or give you....most Councils have them (they get them from Sal
> Army, GoodWill and other sources to include the BSA's Supply
> Division). Raise the money to purchase a new or "experienced" uniform
> shirt for each Scout and Scouter. Go online to one of the auction
> houses (eBay and Yahoo frequently have the old "khaki tan" shirts for
> auction starting at $1.00 each).
>
> But please don't try to "make a Scouting uniform" from a "military
> uniform". That may have worked back when Scouting was younger, when
> people truly didn't care, and when there was less of a "divide"
> between "rich" and "poor". It doesn't work today.
>
> I truly feel that every Scout -- and I'm am example of that "every
> Scout" statement -- can raise the money to purchase a Scout shirt.
> That's the most important part of the Scout uniform, and it is the
> part which all of the insignia of our program goes on and is
> displayed from. It is the item which makes me just as equal as every
> other Scout in every other Troop in every other Council. It it the
> item which tells the world that I'm ready for service.
>
> I and every Scout deserves to have "the real deal" and not a
> "imitation shirt". And the same goes for camoed gear as well.
>
> I hope this all helps out! Thanks to those who contributed in this
> page!
>
>
>
>
> -----------
> This message was sent on [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you need information
> on valid commands on this list, including how to unsubscribe, send a
message
> to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the following word in the body of
> the message: Help
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
> -----------
> This message was sent on [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you need information
on valid commands on this list, including how to unsubscribe, send a message
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the following word in the body of
the message: Help
>
_______
Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule.
Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm
http://rangernet.org
