In bound? IN BOUNDS? Now THAT hurts! Grin. Kidding aside, you're far too kind, Ted. No ride today as it's a brain rest day.
With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:19:49 AM UTC-6, ted wrote: > > Glad you had a great time outside yesterday. May you have another today. > No worries on being grouchy, and no apologies needed. Frankly I didn't > detect much grouch in your post. Way in bounds of the norm around here. > > regards > Ted > > On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 3:07:56 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: >> >> Thanks for the clarification, Ted. I'm following along better now. My >> apologies for being grouchy. >> >> I did have a fantastic run and ride yesterday. good and sloppy, slushy, >> muddy. >> >> With abandon, >> Patrick >> >> On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:55:01 AM UTC-6, ted wrote: >>> >>> Patrick, >>> >>> I hope you were able to get out for a ride today, and that you had a >>> wonderful time. >>> >>> I posted in response to another posters suggestion to search for "berto >>> tire pressure". >>> >>> Doing so should turn up: >>> http://www.bccclub.org/documents/Tireinflation.pdf. That article, or an >>> earlier version of it which was published in Bicycling, seems to be the >>> primary source for most, if not all, of the graphs, spreadsheets and apps >>> dealing with tire pressure as a function of load and tire width that are >>> all over over the internet and comprise a lot of what a google search for >>> "berto tire pressure" turns up. >>> >>> In that article the author (Frank Berto) describes/defines tire drop, >>> and asserts that "... the optimum inflation pressure for comfort and >>> rolling resistance produces a Tire Drop of about 15% of W (the section >>> width) ...". The paper also presents graphs, derived from experiments with >>> a variety of tires, that give tire pressure to produce 15% drop for various >>> tire widths over a range of loads. It is those graphs that have been so >>> widely embraced and repackaged. >>> >>> The paper does not describe or cite any testing or test results that >>> support the assertion that optimal tire pressure results in 15% tire drop >>> (and by inference vice versa). However, I suspect that there is or was some >>> experimental basis for that assertion. >>> >>> The knowledge of the group being greater than mine, I think it is >>> reasonable for me to inquire if anybody knows what Frank Berto's assertion >>> about 15% tire drop being optimal is based on, and can point to some >>> documentation of that basis. Also though I didn't state it well before, and >>> probably still haven't, I think the question is perfectly logical. >>> >>> thnks >>> Ted >>> p.s. Berto's paper also states that "... Jan Heine thinks that inflation >>> pressure is of relatively little importance" and that the author (Berto) >>> disagrees. I am fairly certain Jan's work is not where the 15% drop is >>> optimal thing comes from. >>> >>> On Tay, April 8, 2014 3:02:5 3 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: >>>> >>>> Och, Ted! Your Google skills no doubt are fine. But why seek evidence >>>> of something that is logically incomplete? "The optimum temperature is a >>>> 15% drop." Spread that around at all the rides you do and see if people >>>> start to believe you, to the point that in winter they ride in a tank top >>>> to compensate for temperatures that are 15% too warm for them to ride >>>> optimally. Sardonic grin. >>>> >>>> Logical inference: someone read an article (possibly Jan's) on the >>>> testing of tire pressure and rolling resistance, and due to poor grasp of >>>> logic and reason remembered that concept in relation only to the pressures >>>> they ride, which then came out via inept communication skills as a >>>> truncated "15% drop is optimum", and spread that around club rides until >>>> it >>>> was heard round the world. We see that kind of ineptitude all the time in >>>> "science." Pick any press article about any experiment and you will see >>>> it. >>>> Sardonic grin. >>>> >>>> People aren't taught to be mindful, use logic and reason, and unless >>>> individuals seek it out or learn it on their own, they unwittingly fall >>>> for >>>> all sorts of fallacies of logic and pass them on as intelligent thought. >>>> We >>>> have our education system to thank for that. >>>> >>>> Clearly, I need a ride. I'm off to make sure my tires are 15% less >>>> inflated. Grin. >>>> >>>> With abandon, >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> On Monday, April 7, 2014 8:25:55 PM UTC-6, ted wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I believe I have done that before, and I did just now. I may be >>>>> incompetent but I didn't find test results documenting 15% tire drop as >>>>> an >>>>> optimum. >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
