Doug, It has me really looking at all online platforms, what I've noticed is that they all have extensive user agreements (written obviously by lawyers) that remove them from having any liability whatsoever. You can't use a site unless you sign the user agreement. In this whole mess I accept that I was pretty stupid/naive and I was ripe for the picking. I was really excited to sell the camera and move on so there is/was my blind spot. From here on out what you've detailed will be my method. In fact, I'm now looking at how I purchase things, really scrutinizing whether I need something and will I be needing to sell it in the near future?
~Hugh “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/ On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:30 PM, dougP <dougpn...@cox.net> wrote: > "PayPal claiming it's a hazard of doing business" > > So much for the supposed security of electronic payment systems. Hugh, > your tale is instructive for us all. When I see all the levels / parties / > etc involved in this transaction, I can see why it's attractive to > scammers. I'm with you on checks. It must have a legitimate address plus > you have the banking info. Check clears, deal done. No messing with 3rd / > 4th parties, etc. I've had people say "no checks, Paypal only" which seems > shortsighted. Wait for the check to clear, then ship the parts. If it was > an emergency I'd be at the LBS. Often for stuff under $20 I'll just mail > cash :& I've never had a problem. The USPS is a lot more reliable than > Paypal, IMHO. So far USPS has a perfect record in my experience. > > dougP > > > On Friday, August 14, 2015 at 12:37:03 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: >> >> Hi Bill, >> >> Like others I've bought many items from this group. I haven't sold too >> much though. My experiences have all been top notch. With that said I will >> like the Jim our moderator caution you that you make transactions at your >> own risk. This is a searchable forum and there is very little vetting as to >> who can buy and sell. I'd like to take this opportunity to share an >> experience I had recently not bike related but selling on eBay and >> receiving funds through PayPal. >> >> I sold a Sony a6000 digital camera on eBay in May. The day the auction >> closed through eBay communication the buyer asked me to send the camera to >> an address they supplied. I waited for the funds to show up in my PayPal >> account. They did but were pending as "un-verified buyer" after three days >> it was changed to just "pending" I figured this normal as I needed to ship >> the item then the funds would be released. I printed out a shipping label >> and went to my local USPS they couldn't find the address? They said maybe >> it's a new development and not showing yet in our records? Here's my >> biggest error in this entire process! At this point I recalled that the >> buyer had given me a different address. So I promptly went home and >> retrieved the address and mailed it out. What I should have done was >> contact the buyer and ask questions which would have, should have thrown up >> a reg flag. I should have cancelled the sale. But alas I was happy it sold >> and felt under pressure to be a prompt seller to maintain good eBay seller >> feedback. So with the auction closed and the payment made through PayPal. >> All seemed good to go! Approximately 25 days later I received >> correspondence from PayPal that the buyer opened a dispute with their >> credit card company claiming they didn't authorize the purchase! >> >> Here's where if you've ever watched the movie "Brazil" you can appreciate >> the morass I fell into. Since the transaction was a completed transaction >> eBay washed their hands of it and referred me to PayPal. I lost count how >> many times I called PayPal's customer service, hung up the phone left with >> a level of frustration I've never felt before, they have( I figure >> purposely) the most incompetent people at this point. Here's what I >> garnered from all those conversations. >> >> 1. Don't worry if the credit card companies found in favor of the buyers >> then no one would do business with the CC companies. >> 2. A dispute like this can take up to 75 days. >> 3. They PayPal gave the CC company the incorrect tracking number. So the >> CC company obviously figured I was a scammer. >> 4. We will give all the information you gave us to the CC company. >> Basically, they PayPal are your advocate at this point between you and the >> buyers CC company. Shaky at best. >> 5. Since you didn't ship to the buyer's address we have on file all >> PayPal seller protections are void. >> >> I finally received an email from PayPal that the CC company decided in >> favor of the Buyer. At this point my PayPal account shows a negative >> balance of $880 $20 of that is a charge back fee from PayPal. Next up I >> started getting calls from PayPal! The person on the other end of this >> conversation was clearly competent. From that conversation I was told that >> seven days after a chargeback PayPal requires you settle your account with >> them and if you don't your account will be sent to a collections agency. At >> this point you may ask well you've got options. Right? >> >> Since eBay discards all records of transactions after 60 days I can't >> communicate with the buyer through them. Back in early June when this all >> happened I did send a eBay email to the buyer asking how we can resolve >> this, no reply. The email that PayPal has on file for the buyer is bogus. >> Both eBay and PayPal won't give any information about the buyer for privacy >> reasons. That competent PayPal representative said, "oh a lawyer can help >> you get access to the buyer's records". I contacted my local police and the >> detective said we can't help you this is a civil case and PayPal is the >> victim. >> >> Very important here is the PayPal user agreement. It states that you are >> responsible for any and all "chargebacks" period. In researching my options >> I found there are numerous scams perpetrated on the eBay platform and it's >> not necessarily a safe place to sell or buy things. Other sellers a lot >> more experienced than I have fallen victim to scams/thefts for way more >> money. In fact those merchants doing business on eBay received >> correspondence from eBay and PayPal claiming it's a hazard of doing >> business. These companies know their platforms are used by thieves and yet >> they portray a sense of safety. Granted, of all the transactions the bad >> experiences amount to a small fraction. >> >> My takeaway from this experience. >> >> I'm paying back PayPal and will no longer use them to send or receive >> money period nor any other electronic payment service. In the future I will >> only accept checks and won't ship until those funds are cleared by my bank. >> I figure either the buyer's identity was breached or they are the >> perpetrators and using the credit card company to do fraud. It's been an >> expensive lesson and I hope this experience helps others not go through >> what I went through. My future plan is to share this through Facebook and >> get it out there. >> >> Tail Winds, >> >> ~Hugh >> >> >> >> >> On Saturday, July 18, 2015 at 1:29:14 PM UTC-7, Bill Ruprecht wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I am new to this group and am thinking of buying and selling some Riv >>> bikes in the near future. I have a questions: >>> >>> How do you deal with the transaction securely? Do you just "trust" that >>> the person will ship the bike after you pay him/her? At least Ebay has >>> procedures in place. >>> >>> This works on both sides of the transaction as i wonder how someone >>> would trust that i would ship after receiving his money. >>> >>> Let me know how you guys usually deal with this. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Bill >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/b8ydbeRYKww/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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