Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. That said, I don't consider a curved 
top tube to make any difference in whether it rides like / not like a 
Hillborne. Price point is a differentiator but also kind of a separate 
consideration, especially since Sam wasn't a super expensive frame (by Riv 
standards) to start.  I'd love to see more Clem-level priced bikes from Riv 
though!  I've been wanting a Clem H for commuting but being squarely 
between two very far-apart sizes has been a detractor. 

On Saturday, 21 December 2019 10:42:54 UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The diagram Paul M mentioned shows a low stepover, kind of a high 
> Gus/Susie variation. Also it's going to be mostly-TIGed, so lower price 
> point than Hillborne. We're discussing a bike that's "like a Hillborne" but 
> with a lower-curved toptube, different tube joinery and lower cost. That's 
> a different bike.  

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