I enjoy the “Bike Brand Guru = ‘70s Guitar God” game way more than I enjoy listening to ‘70s guitar gods. I only know Rory Gallagher from the Black 47 song “Rory.”
I’ll watch the Russ video later, and then comment if I have anything to say. Philip Santa Rosa, CA On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 11:30:51 PM UTC-8 john...@gmail.com wrote: > I absolutely agree with Ben's point about how both Rivendell and Crust > have tried to build up a subculture around their brands that is about more > than just the bikes. > At the same time, doing this helps people get an idea of what you can do > with the bikes they make, e.g. the way the Scapegoat is a model designed by > someone who does > a very specific sort of riding. > > Couple more guitarist-frame builder connections: > > Tom Ritchey > Tony Iommi: Played pivotal role in creation of entire genre. > Had to compete with a flamboyant frontman to get credit (Ozzy/Gary Fisher) > JP Weigle > Robert Fripp: Perfectionist with distinctive style. Not well > known outside the circle of cognoscenti > > On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 19:43, Ben Miller <ben.l....@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Okay, okay, I have to admit Johnny's comparisons of "Riv is to the Dead >> as Crust is to Bowie" got a laugh out of me. That and some of the other >> comments got me thinking a bit, Riv and Crust are more than just the bikes. >> Sure other bike companies were influenced by Grant: Surly, Velo Orange, >> Rawland, etc, but I'd make a case that they lack the personality that Riv >> and Crust have. >> >> Crust literally started because Matt made the bikes that he and his >> friends wanted to ride: Evasion/Matt, Scapegoat/The Goat, Cheeco/Angelica, >> and Romanceur/Ronnie. That's pretty bold and subversive in a Riv way. And >> these are bikes that definitely didn't exist in any other form at the time. >> In many ways, the Bombora which Russ used in the comparisons is the most >> "normal" bike in the Crust lineup (Dan from Bike Insights made a flowchart >> and to get to the Bombora the answer is "Man, I just want a bike. I'm not a >> weirdo") >> >> But even more than that, the team a Crust is then filled out with these >> personalities. Much like Riv highlighting their team through "Staff Bikes" >> and their Instagram account, Crust does that too with their Elevator to >> Hell videos. And both companies use their platform to raise awareness to >> causes they care about. Crust's sponsoring of the Slim One because they can >> and think it is the right thing to do is along the same lines as Riv's BRF >> experiment, though perhaps less controversial. And Grant being open about >> cash flow problems isn't that different from Crust taking a break over >> holidays and being open about feeling overwhelmed at the time. >> >> All this adds up to two companies that are almost as much about the >> people as the bikes. I find myself routing for Grant and Matt, hoping their >> projects work out even if I don't want that particular one for myself. I >> definitely can't say that about Surly or New Albion. In a way, both >> companies are a bit like custom builders because of that, you feel a >> personal connection. I think that is what the makes the Rivendell vs Crust >> comparison so unique. >> >> As far as guitarists: James Iha, Dave Navarro, John Frusciante. Yes, I am >> Gen X. >> >> (Disclaimer: I will tip my hat to Velo Orange, especially when Chris at >> the helm, feels like a company that had a real personal touch and a sense >> of humor) >> >> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 9:44:58 AM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote: >> >>> Just to clarify, I'm certainly not getting bent because I'm not a fan of >>> the video editing (or the content, for that matter.) And whether or not he >>> is making money, or is trying to make money, or is performing a public >>> service because he enjoys the luxury of enough free time to do so, is not >>> really relevant. He is obviously sincere in what he does and seems to have >>> a decent following. And good for him. After watching the video above, I >>> would not be able to use it to make a decision as to which bike might be >>> better for me. On the one hand, he refers to the Bombora as spicey and >>> sporty. On the other, he says the Riv's steering is quicker, but keeps >>> calling it relaxed and chill. Hard to tell, but it looks like maybe the >>> Bombora has more drop from saddle to bars. Who knows. >>> >>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 12:15:36 PM UTC-5 mrg...@gmail.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I love bike comparison videos of every kind. I want to see Rivs vs Rivs >>>> with some tiny difference, Riv vs Crusts, Surlys, carbon TT bikes, >>>> everything. I want to see "I took my Electra Townie to a pump track", >>>> "super-low-trail bike vs penny farthing for grocery getter", "55 Atlantis >>>> 29er vs 56 Atlantis 650b", "Same bike with 12 different handlebar setups", >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> I like what Russ at Path Less Pedaled is doing; he's all about the >>>> "non-competitive side of cycling" which aligns with RBW perfectly. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> Austin TX >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 10:49:04 AM UTC-6 bjmi...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If I had a YouTube channel and wanted people to watch, click the like >>>>> button, subscribe, etc... I'd probably write titles that makes people >>>>> want >>>>> to click them. When I go shopping for a car, I don't get bent about car >>>>> sales tactics that are there for a reason, even if they kind of annoy me. >>>>> I >>>>> know I'm trying to be manipulated online with YouTube titles, I recognize >>>>> it, and I accept that it's something they have to do. >>>>> >>>>> As for the aesthetic of the edits being rough, I don't know if this is >>>>> the case or not, but I think it's intentional. Russ has a background in >>>>> film and photography, so I have to think that producing videos with that >>>>> jumpiness is intended. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not saying it's good or bad, but the jumpy edits could be argued >>>>> to be good because they do create a feeling of energy/excitement by >>>>> eliminating long pauses. >>>>> >>>>> I could be (and usually am) totally wrong and Russ just throws these >>>>> together without thinking about it. But I think knowing his tendencies >>>>> and >>>>> background, I'd say he means to do it. >>>>> >>>>> If it turns you off, that's totally fair and I'm not saying it >>>>> shouldn't. He reminds me of John Green's YouTube videos...same kind of >>>>> editing, no dead space, frenetic and fast paced energy, etc... >>>>> >>>>> Ben "not an expert on video editing theory" in Omaha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-6 Mark Roland wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Laing wrote:* I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary >>>>>> on a video that they did not watch. * >>>>>> The PLP post is titled Rivendell vs. Crust. Which is Better? There >>>>>> are no models in the title, and that is what brings it to the realm of >>>>>> clickbait. The OP also states right up front that the video is less >>>>>> provocative. Generally, Rivendell vs. Crust, some of the qualities that >>>>>> separate them are disc brakes, more conventional chainstay lengths, and >>>>>> yes, low trail. Based on the thrust of the thread starter, I would say >>>>>> perfectly legitimate to comment without bothering to watch the actual >>>>>> video >>>>>> referenced. Obviously a Sam Hillborne does not qualify as low trail. It >>>>>> may >>>>>> be lower trail than bike x, but not low trail. I did find it mildly >>>>>> amusing >>>>>> that he was noting the differences between 42.5 and 45.5 chainstays. He >>>>>> should try a Susie! >>>>>> >>>>>> From an aesthetic point of view, I find his videos hard to watch due >>>>>> to the editing/splicing. I wish he would let the camera roll through a >>>>>> bit >>>>>> more--maybe he could have a cheat board of notes if he can't talk >>>>>> extemporaneously. As it is, the video is noticeably spliced after every >>>>>> sentence or two. Maybe this is normal these days with vlogs, and it's >>>>>> just >>>>>> me being old. Oh well. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 8:26:38 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary on a video >>>>>>> that they did not watch. As Tom pointed out, the Sam Hillborne is the >>>>>>> "low >>>>>>> trail" bike in this comparison - you need to watch the video to know >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> is in it. Note that I have one Crust (Scapegoat) and 12 Rivendells. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One word on guitarists: Hendrix. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 8:09:04 AM UTC-5 Tom M wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FWIW, the particular Crust Russ is reviewing isn't low trail — he >>>>>>>> said it's 76 or 75 mm. I don't have a particular dog in the fight, and >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> enjoyed the video and don't consider it click-bait. As Russ said, he >>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>> asked this type of question all the time, so why not do a video? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And re: guitarists—thanks to Philip for the Rory Gallagher link. >>>>>>>> I'd never heard of him but will now check him out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom Milani >>>>>>>> Alexandria, VA USA >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 2:18:44 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Which - to be clear - is my response to the premise of the thread >>>>>>>>> which is the premise of the Path Less Pedaled thing. I'm not >>>>>>>>> objecting to >>>>>>>>> the thread being a thread. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Joe "let me say this about that" Bernard >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:02:16 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think a Riv vs. anything low trail really counts as a >>>>>>>>>> comparison, it's two very different approaches to what is considered >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> "right" way for a bicycle to handle. But my bias is extreme, I >>>>>>>>>> bought a >>>>>>>>>> Crust Lightning Bolt (disc) and hoo boy did I learn the expensive >>>>>>>>>> way that >>>>>>>>>> I do *not *like low trail. Rivs ride the way I need my bikes to >>>>>>>>>> ride. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The "Path Less Pedaled" YouTube channel just released a video >>>>>>>>>>> with the provocative title "Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better? >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0hM8ZSBRl0>" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The actual video is a lot less provocative. Basically Russ >>>>>>>>>>> comparing his Hillborne to his Bombora. Still interesting, but >>>>>>>>>>> maybe less >>>>>>>>>>> so than it could be? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I imagine Crust and Rivendell must get compared to each other a >>>>>>>>>>> lot. I know that their the only two bike frames I currently own and >>>>>>>>>>> ride, >>>>>>>>>>> so I do it more or less constantly. I imagine that this is partly >>>>>>>>>>> due to >>>>>>>>>>> Matt & Bene purposefully designing the Romanceur frame with the >>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell >>>>>>>>>>> aesthetic in mind. I think Russ sort of touches on that, when >>>>>>>>>>> comparing the >>>>>>>>>>> Bombora to the All City and the Hillborne to the Richtey. He seems >>>>>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>>>>> saying, the Ritchey/All City aesthetic lacked something the >>>>>>>>>>> Riv/Crust bikes >>>>>>>>>>> had. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, I think of Crust as threadless, disc, and low trail >>>>>>>>>>> compared to Rivendell with rim brakes, quill stems, and high trail. >>>>>>>>>>> Like >>>>>>>>>>> most thing's not hard and fast (see: Canti Lightning Bolt). What's >>>>>>>>>>> your hot >>>>>>>>>>> take on the two? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and >>>>>>>>>>> important stuff for the bike industry. What I think would be really >>>>>>>>>>> interesting collaboration between Grant and Matt. Maybe something >>>>>>>>>>> along the >>>>>>>>>>> lines of the Soma San Marcos, but both providing inputs. That'd be >>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>> cool! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/JLqD3_kct3o/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7fbecfb6-19d7-4bc1-9891-76e8f3c03c65n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7fbecfb6-19d7-4bc1-9891-76e8f3c03c65n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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