I have yet to find a really supple tire that has any sort of off road tread. The Vittoria terreno dry came close in 650b. I do wonder about the Schwalbe G One RS. I need something fast on pavement with just enough grip to not feel extremely vague on loose stuff.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 11:34 AM Ted W <ted.l.w...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I saw this again: > *There is a pervasive myth that thin, "supple" tire sidewalls are > essential to a smooth and cushy ride. That is misleading at best, bullshit > at worst. For a given tire volume and inflation pressure, a thinner tire > casing will obviously flex more. But that also means that for any degree of > rim protection (from bottoming out), you have to inflate it harder. For any > given degree of measurable cush, you don't have to inflate a stiffer tire > as much. Maybe 5psi less. This will give you the same absorption over a > bump, and a more cut-resistant and sun-resistant tire. *> > > I have conscientiously pursued supple tire Nirvana years and I've been > able to compare a fair number of supple, more supple, and less supple > tires, and while as always YMMAWV, I conclude that thin, supple sidewalls > do make a huge difference despite the reality that, yes, they require more > air pressure and don't always feel smoother than thicker tires at lower > pressures, *but* they also don't have that "how did I end up riding in > molasses?" feel of thick tires at pressures low enough not to be jarring. > > Grant is a very highly opinionated person and, like all highly opinionated > people, should have their opinions considered with a healthy dose of salt > on the side. I definitely agree with his "fuss less, ride more" mentality > of bikes but there are definitely some aspects that I've also come to > believe, for my own style of riding, make more of a difference than he > gives credit; tires are one such area where I will have to agree to > disagree with Grant. > > I recently finished reading Jan's book The All-Road Bike Revolution and > have read numerous studies by Silca on the effects of tire design and air > pressure. The views expressed by these two sources more closely mirror my > own experience and opinions on the subject. And while I don't think tires > and tire pressure are the *only* things that should be considered, I > think tires are one of the most important, interchangeable components on a > bicycle that impacts the overall feel of the bike on a given surface so it > makes sense to put more thought and attention in to it when all other bases > are covered (bike fit, etc.). > > I've ridden very comfortable, thick wall tires (WTB Thick Slicks, for > those curious) as well as a number of different "performance" tires for > both road and gravel and I can say with absolute certainty that you can > definitely find comfortable tires with thicker sidewalls and less "supple" > construction, but they are the exception. You will be hard pressed to be > disappointed by the ride quality (not accounting for other factors) of a > tire designed with a thinner, and more flexible sidewall. > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I just read from the RBW page and remembered that I'd read it and >> considered the Shikoros before. I take it that the Shikoros are perhaps >> more like Jack Brown Greens than like RH extralights. >> >> I saw this again: *There is a pervasive myth that thin, "supple" tire >> sidewalls are essential to a smooth and cushy ride. That is misleading at >> best, bullshit at worst. For a given tire volume and inflation pressure, a >> thinner tire casing will obviously flex more. But that also means that for >> any degree of rim protection (from bottoming out), you have to inflate it >> harder. For any given degree of measurable cush, you don't have to inflate >> a stiffer tire as much. Maybe 5psi less. This will give you the same >> absorption over a bump, and a more cut-resistant and sun-resistant tire. * >> >> I have conscientiously pursued supple tire Nirvana years and I've been >> able to compare a fair number of supple, more supple, and less supple >> tires, and while as always YMMAWV, I conclude that thin, supple sidewalls >> do make a huge difference despite the reality that, yes, they require more >> air pressure and don't always feel smoother than thicker tires at lower >> pressures, *but* they also don't have that "how did I end up riding in >> molasses?" feel of thick tires at pressures low enough not to be jarring. >> >> I know, I recall swapping out 60 mm Schwalbe Big Apples for 60 mm Big >> Ones (the lightest model) and being disappointed that I had to pump the BOs >> to close to 20 psi versus the 15 I'd put in the BAs. 20 psi in paper thin >> supple tires means that they do ride no more smoothly over bumps than 15 >> psi heavy tires, but OTOH, the rolling quality is so far superior to forego >> comparison. >> >> So sure, you can get a smooth ride with thick tires; I did with 622 X 60 >> and 559 X 60 Big Apples at 15 psi. But handling and rolling resistance ...? >> Sorry. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 11:21 AM Ted W <ted.l.w...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> For what it's worth, RE: Shikoros, I was going off what Riv carries on >>> the site: >>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/soma-shikoro-tires?variant=31799845519471 >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 1:14 PM Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ted: I hadn't heard of the Shikoros; thanks. I looked the, up on Soma's >>>> site and also called up some reviews. Apparently the fattest ones are only >>>> 42 mm wide, and while the reviews were positive they weren't ecstatic as >>>> they were for the Supple Vitesse SL. The Shikoro is apparently more of a >>>> commuter tire with a puncture belt and therefore rather heavy (360 grams >>>> for the SSV SL, 450 grams for the fatter 60 mm Big One lightweight model). >>>> I prefer ultra supple and ultralight tires even on my errand bikes and have >>>> done well on them by riding with care and using good sealant. (I used to >>>> commute 15 or 16 miles 1-way across town on rough pavement with loads on >>>> 200 gram Specialized 26 X 1" Turbos and had fewer flats than with 240 gram >>>> 26 X 1.25 Paselas.) >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 10:38 AM Ted W <ted.l.w...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Patrick, >>>>> >>>>> The SSVSLs remind me of the Soma Shikoros that are currently available >>>>> up to 700x48. Have you ever ridden these for comparison? They were >>>>> originally on my list but I'd written them off due to the lack of tread >>>>> (and in my mind, the associated puncture resistance). >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 12:20 PM Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Eliot: I've considered the Snoqualmies as an alternative to my >>>>>> no-longer-made Soma Supple Vitesse SLs (of which I have a small stash). >>>>>> The Somas are labeled 48 and measure 51.5 mm on my Blunt SS 35 mm OW rims >>>>>> and 50 seems a sweet spot for this bike. >>>>>> >>>>>> How wide do your SPs measure in real world mms, and on what width of >>>>>> rim and at what tire pressure? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Patrick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:46 AM Eliot Balogh <eliotbal...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I LOVE the Snoqualmie Pass 700x44 EL tires. I had some issues with >>>>>>> leakage but it ended up being a tape issue and now they’re perfect. They >>>>>>> have unbelievable rolling resistance and ride feel. They’re the best >>>>>>> balance of speed and suppleness that seem to roll as fast as a skinny >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> have the suppleness of a fatty. I will cry long and hard if I ever have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> give up on them (longevity isn’t great and some can be fussy tubeless). >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> sounds like you want some knobby goodness but if you’re just riding >>>>>>> light >>>>>>> gravel these could do the trick. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For more aggressive tread I bought some Specialized Pathfinder Pro >>>>>>> 700x42 which seem pretty good so far. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 8:26 AM Ted W <ted.l.w...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’ve had tires on the brain this last week. I was thinking I might >>>>>>>> want to try something a little narrower on my Appaloosa so I’ve been a >>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>> absorbed with that thought. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the moment I run the SimWorks Super Yummy tire with the black >>>>>>>> sidewall in 29x2.25”. I previously had their 26x2.25” tan wall tires >>>>>>>> on a >>>>>>>> 26” build and absolutely loved them on that bike. Unfortunately, in the >>>>>>>> larger size, with the sort of riding I do (spirited, urban, all-road) I >>>>>>>> find the tires sluggish and a bit unpredictable at times. Combined >>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>> 25mm wide rim I use, the tires measure to close to 60mm wide. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was thinking about trying to find a tire with a more rounded >>>>>>>> profile and something that would be a bit narrower, somewhere in the >>>>>>>> 44-48mm range to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’ve been looking primarily at the Rene Herse tires. I have a >>>>>>>> friend who runs the Pumpkin Ridge (650x42) tire on his bike of a >>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>> purpose and absolutely loves them. I’ve used the Naches Pass (26x1.8) >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> another build and also liked them a lot, but found that despite being >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> “endurance” casing, they were very prone to small punctures and didn’t >>>>>>>> handle the typical road debris around where I ride very well; this is >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> of the reasons I’ve typically stuck with knobbier tires. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The ones on my short list are currently the Manatash Ridge >>>>>>>> (700x42) and Oracle Ridge (700x48) tires from RH. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’m curious to know and see what others on the list use and have >>>>>>>> liked. If you have pictures, I’d also love to see what they look like >>>>>>>> (particularly 42mm on frames like the Appaloosa). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> — Ted >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShpuLg6sNR2_6dZVVGm%2BVa9WfG_5Ec6rE%3DLpSu9%2B5JGXPw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShpuLg6sNR2_6dZVVGm%2BVa9WfG_5Ec6rE%3DLpSu9%2B5JGXPw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAALGE1U_zaRZTGqMdsFFmE_RWN%2BujY6QtbqZfHZiXMhb6YbnOA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAALGE1U_zaRZTGqMdsFFmE_RWN%2BujY6QtbqZfHZiXMhb6YbnOA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Patrick Moore >>>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other >>>>>> writing services. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> *When thou didst not, savage,* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >>>>>> >>>>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >>>>>> >>>>>> *With words that made them known.* >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt86FaKgMwcRDTteG26-fbY7%2BSz8RpfQBR%2Bo_j_z_aCGA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt86FaKgMwcRDTteG26-fbY7%2BSz8RpfQBR%2Bo_j_z_aCGA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com > >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShoRcN7CwoMPB%2Byv--HfNwrnhCkdU53q_eZirzPyRi8iHw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShoRcN7CwoMPB%2Byv--HfNwrnhCkdU53q_eZirzPyRi8iHw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Patrick Moore >>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >>>> services. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> *When thou didst not, savage,* >>>> >>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >>>> >>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >>>> >>>> *With words that made them known.* >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvgEkOb3ug-4MuLrmdeS%3DvF8tH5J3QzxffTO1Le9kn4mg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvgEkOb3ug-4MuLrmdeS%3DvF8tH5J3QzxffTO1Le9kn4mg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com > >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShqa69vqVUtoHgnzKER%2BvhCyBc73bHnXth%3D%3DfcTcCJ1-XA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShqa69vqVUtoHgnzKER%2BvhCyBc73bHnXth%3D%3DfcTcCJ1-XA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >> services. >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> *When thou didst not, savage,* >> >> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >> >> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >> >> *With words that made them known.* >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt1Kp7j%2BNW_bn2A4LxOLXk4OYiZxFwsS%2Bvsm8mk7JiGzA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt1Kp7j%2BNW_bn2A4LxOLXk4OYiZxFwsS%2Bvsm8mk7JiGzA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com > > > -- > You received 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