Kim - I may have actually taken advantage of the other Clem post you so graciously put on the Craigslist thread. The owner dropped it off at Blue Heron Bike Shop for me on Tuesday and it's on it's way to Atlanta now. So I already owe you many thanks!
I second Mike's experience with Blue Lug. I ordered my Appa frame from them and it was very price competitive with Riv despite being shipped DHL from Japan. I also didn't have to pay any import fee/duty on the frame. So it's definitely worth keeping an eye on their global web store for these to pop up. I also agree with Kat's thought on the fact that there won't be any Appaloosa's this year either. So those who have been holding out for an Atlantis will have gone Submarine Green, and those who would've bought an Appa probably didn't mind either way = lots of Demand. Excited to see builds from those of you who snagged one, and sorry to hear that so many weren't able to grab a frame! On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:38:16 PM UTC-4 Kat wrote: > There's also no Appaloosas this year - so possibly at least some of the > demand is people who would have otherwise gone for an Appaloosa. > > On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 12:03:29 PM UTC+10 brianmark...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> I have an Appaloosa so was watching the sale out of curiosity, wild how >> quickly they went. I’d chalk it up to what, five years since the last >> Atlantis batch? >> >> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> @Drew, >>> >>> There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site: >>> >>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html >>> >>> Kim Hetzel. >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm >>>> complete/frame) and got this response: >>>> >>>> "Hi Drew, >>>> >>>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has >>>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales. Hopefully by summer it's >>>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis. >>>> >>>> So no clems, I'm sorry!" >>>> >>>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last >>>> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm....). Though it might >>>> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then! >>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 >>>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, >>>>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve >>>>> one on the phone? >>>>> >>>>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time >>>>> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year >>>>> before) >>>>> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many >>>>> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and >>>>> they >>>>> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and >>>>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If >>>>> someone >>>>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus >>>>> they can still sell the bike to a new person. >>>>> >>>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió: >>>>> >>>>>> And only a couple of those! Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd >>>>>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have >>>>>> enough, >>>>>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on >>>>>> the >>>>>> table. Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number. That's >>>>>> impressive! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green. >>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub >>>>>>>> Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. >>>>>>>> Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> Analog?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 >>>>>>>> kiziria...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green >>>>>>>>> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first >>>>>>>>> minute. >>>>>>>>> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! >>>>>>>>> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' >>>>>>>>>> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with >>>>>>>>>> the 55cm >>>>>>>>>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going >>>>>>>>>> 55 vs 53 >>>>>>>>>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom >>>>>>>>>> half frame >>>>>>>>>> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as >>>>>>>>>> I will >>>>>>>>>> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a >>>>>>>>>> proper >>>>>>>>>> mountain bike for singletrack. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though >>>>>>>>>> I wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take >>>>>>>>>> advantage of >>>>>>>>>> that massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old >>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in >>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>> Honjo flat fenders. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's >>>>>>>>>> great. From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those >>>>>>>>>> who are >>>>>>>>>> on the fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. >>>>>>>>>> But because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> that "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> today. Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our >>>>>>>>>> evolutionary >>>>>>>>>> psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. More >>>>>>>>>> businesses need >>>>>>>>>> to be content with their size, and evolve just enough to account for >>>>>>>>>> inflation and rising wages, like Rivendell do. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I >>>>>>>>>>> would likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended >>>>>>>>>>> sizing >>>>>>>>>>> could ride a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post >>>>>>>>>>> showing. I like both colors. >>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 >>>>>>>>>>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I >>>>>>>>>>>> liked the last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis >>>>>>>>>>>> version isn’t >>>>>>>>>>>> quite of my liking. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based >>>>>>>>>>>> in their height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size >>>>>>>>>>>> 55 as I >>>>>>>>>>>> plan on riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore >>>>>>>>>>>> I’d >>>>>>>>>>>> welcome the standover provided in size 55. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck in the presale >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H. < >>>>>>>>>>>> dhansf...@gmail.com> escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who >>>>>>>>>>>>> it planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order >>>>>>>>>>>>> one, which >>>>>>>>>>>>> color? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stratgy, through blogs and blahgs and emails. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> business on it's sleeve so openly. If someone wanted to read >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, the thought process would become pretty clear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately, and also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or two of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> future sales of each model. But it' obviously difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> predict what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that number will be. It's not to intentionally create a rush or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them exclusive by shutting some people out. On the other hand, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need for customers to act with some urgency once the shipment >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lands, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it locks up a lot of cash that they can't afford to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adds to the difficulty. As does their limited storage space. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand why someone would be frustrated, and have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there myself. Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lived >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand-to-mouth, and am not always able to make big or spontaneous >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discretionary purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> schedule. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably a good thing, in some ways. If I could, I'd buy an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atlantis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, just to test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - and then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably release it later. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grow, it's to remain sustainable. So rather than maximize sales >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but possibly sit on product for months or years, it's better to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to mostly sell out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I get that it's frustrating not to be able to order one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any size of any frame at any time, but the companies that keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stock also have to charge enough initially so they still make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they close out last year's model for 50% off before they pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything they don't sell by year's end. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's easier to manage cash flow, expectations and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the plates they're spinning if they can be intentional >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quantities rather than having them sit around and having to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell them. They used to have a lot more frames available >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when they had a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot more sizes of each frame and had a bit less of an audience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think quantities have been reduced, I think variables (like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of sizes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per bike, custom paint, etc.) have, which make them easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sustainable business practices don't always feel "good for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the consumer" but I'd rather have Rivendell Bicycle Works >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around than have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the option to buy a frame in my size at any time if it meant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they went >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buh-bye. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $.02 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indpls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-4 Andy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beichler wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, I don't have any insight but perhaps someone here, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does. Has Rivendell started making smaller orders or are they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> popular? Either of those could cause low inventory situations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who has bought parts but never a frame from Rivendell, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main issue for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me with low inventory is that I can't endlessly do the pro/con >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rundown in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head on buying an available frame or complete. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Back on topic-I won't be buying an Atlantis today but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will log in later to see if there is one still available in my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 3:57:25 PM UTC-4 Doug H. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your points make sense, Collin. Ordering to meet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unreasonable, unsustainable demand would be a mistake for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure. Ordering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to have inventory available would be nice, as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumer. But, I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in no way knowledgeable about how to run a business >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully. I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just offering my observation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 3:52:18 PM UTC-4 Collin A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, what you describe as being frustrating to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumer is kinda what happened during COVID - a HUGE demand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for bikes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early in the pandemic encouraged a lot of companies to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over-order parts and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bikes (in hindsight) and now those same companies are stuck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overstock and are just losing money hand-over-fist...so I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very happy Riv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't going down the path of ordering to meet demand and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focusing on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designing good stuff that folks want and making sure the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> company holds on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the long haul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Collin, Overstocked in Oakland >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 12:46:33 PM UTC-7 Doug H. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This business model of having presales and keeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> framesets somewhat scarce is interesting. People know if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they don't act >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly their chance may be gone for a year or more. Or, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can try to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a frame/bicycle of choice in the used market. I must >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aggravating as a consumer but as a business practice it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to work! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 18, 2025 at 3:45:42 PM UTC-4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am planning on getting one in Atlantis classic color. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was kind of disappointed it is being offered in a color >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic Atlantis blue. I think that was part of its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appeal, the original >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (albeit very different to the original model) bike in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riv line-up that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was only offered in one color, true to its principles blah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blah blah. Also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Sergio green also being the color of the Appaloosa, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and those two >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bikes being so similar, I would even be tempted to merge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them, effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discontinuing one of the two, and offer more intermediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sizes of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resulting "Appa-lantis". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I am not too enthused about this year's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model is the pump peg in the seat stays. I do prefer the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less conspicuous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin in the head tube underneath the top tube. I think that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planning on carrying a large pump in the seat stay (either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a mini pump or because you large pump lives in a frame >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bag), the peg itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a bit of an eyesore that ruins the straight line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simplicity of the seat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stays and rear triangle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> El lunes, 17 de marzo de 2025 a las 12:39:24 UTC, Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H. escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Kat, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree that the original Atlantis color is classic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and to my eyes just suits the bike. But, I really like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Sergio Green >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which would make it a tough choice for me! I have always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been a fan of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shades of green anyway including the Lime Olive green >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Riv has used. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder if the Atlantis bikes will sell out and/or sell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly during the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presale? It is always fun to watch but even more fun to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> participate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 17, 2025 at 5:42:37 AM UTC-4 Kat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just days now until the 2025 Atlantis sale! Who's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planning on getting one? What colour? I'm interested in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing people's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts on the Sergio green - I do feel much of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appeal of the Atlantis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that gorgeous blue. Interested to hear people's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plans. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kathryn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a >>>>>>>>>>>>> topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f2e1e65-da5b-4d62-8973-fa1674d8d8adn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f2e1e65-da5b-4d62-8973-fa1674d8d8adn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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