Well written and thoughtful treatment of the subject. I'm super glad you are getting positive results for your substantial efforts. And I for one think the Pacenti crown looks dynamite.
On Tuesday, June 5, 2012 1:37:57 PM UTC-7, René wrote: > > Disclaimer: > > This is a very long post and I want to start by stating that I don't mean > to start another heated debate on high vs. low trail fork, or Jan vs. Grant > philosophies, etc. I just want to describe this experiment and its initial > results to the group so anyone thinking along the same lines has another > point of reference. I'll gladly answer any questions that are posted, > either privately or publicly but let's handle it as the controversial topic > it usually is. Also worth noting is that this is a modification I chose to > do on my own to my bikes and while Rivendell certainly supports the > exchange of information and knowledge about bikes, they certainly stand > proudly by their bikes and their design philosophy. This post is in no way > an attempt to challenge that. They are aware of my experiment. > > Ok, here I go... > > For a number of reasons that I can just summarize, in no particular order, > as the tendency of my Rivendell bikes to shimmy with any loads (especially > my Atlantis), my dislike for how they handle with any front loads > and especially heavier ones, as well as with heavy rear loads, all of which > magnify the tendency of the front steering to pull and require > overcorrection when turning, as well as the interesting and very educating > online discussions and articles on bike geometry and fork geometry and its > effects on the handling characteristics of a bike, I decided to try it to > see for myself what the whole low trail geometry claims were about. > I wasn't able or willing to go buy a new bike just to experiment, and > even if I did, there would be no way I could tell what the low trail fork > would do to the handling of my Rivendell bikes which, aside from the > nuances/issues stated above, I love. And yes, while I could > certainly adjust to all of these quirks, I just didn't like having them on > my bikes. The obvious solution recommended by some people on this group in > addition to several articles online pointed me to Tom Matchak in the East > Coast who had already built low trail forks for other Rivendell bikes. Tom > seemed to have a great reputation as a builder and immediately knew what > this was all about when I contacted him. Due to the long lead time to have > the low trail fork built for my Atlantis as was my original intention plus > a few additional considerations that came up as part of this process, like > the need to have the Atlantis repainted and why not, the Hunqapillar as > well (never did like that gray color much), I decided to take the risk of > ordering two low trail forks for both the Atlantis and the Hunqapillar as > these are the bikes I mainly ride loaded. > > I asked Jan Heine for his low trail recommendation as well as Tom Matchak > and they both came out with the same number: 40mm of trail, which requires > a rake of 70mm for 40/50 mm tires. On the Hunqapillar, the same 70mm rake > comes out to 42mm of trail. For comparison, the standard Rivendell fork for > the Atlantis has 45mm rake/65mm trail and the standard Hunqapillar fork has > 50mm rake/63mm trail. I had to send several detailed measurements to Tom > Matchak so he could preserve the crown race to axle distances on both > bikes. He also specked cable guides for my dynamo lights as well as fender > attachments so I no longer need to fiddle with the darumas to mount the > front fenders and can screw in the fender directly to the underside of the > crown. Additionally, the fork for the Hunqapillar was spec'd with a Pacenti > MTB bi-plate crown to run the 50mm tires with 60 mm fenders and the fork > for the Altantis with a Long Shen A16 crown to be used with 40mm tires and > 50 mm fenders. Regretfully but understandably so, I got a negative response > to my inquire at RBW on whether I could buy a pair of Rivendell crowns for > this project, so while none of these crowns is as beautiful as the original > Riv crowns, they're sort of Rivish, especially the A16. Both forks were > also spec'd with the usual set braze-ons for the normal array of racks > including the Nova and Duo Lowrider racks. Tom put these braze-ons on the > front of the fork instead of on the back where the Riv forks have them with > the effect that it will be easier to level them properly. I didn't ask for > the braze-ons on top of the crown as I have no use for them. > > After the long expected wait (this whole project started in december of > 2011 and it took until febrary for the orders and details for both forks to > be completed. Tom was going to schedule them to be built in March anyway > and was done in April. He shipped both forks to the local painter Keven > recommended (D&D cycles); for some reason I never understood, he refused > from the start to ship the unpainted forks to me, but agreed to ship them > to the painter of my choice since the bikes were going to be repainted and > the forks would have to be painted to match the frames. > > The second phase of this project is for me to disassemble the Atlantis > first and take it to Rick to be repainted. This repaint was necessary (as > these things are) since I had the right down tube braze-on replaced after > almost destroying it during the original build (another long story). Not > wanting to be without both the Hunqapillar and the Atlantis at the same > time, I asked Rick if he could give me the Hunqapillar fork to use while > the Atlantis got repainted including the new fork (4 - 6 weeks waiting > time) and when I took possession of the Atlantis, I'd drop the Hunqapillar > so he could repaint it to change the stock gray color. He gave the new low > trail fork for the Hunqapillar its primer coat and a quick coat of > Hunqapillar gray so it wouldn't look bad as I rode it and tested it before > the repaint. > > I had such a hectic travel and work schedule that I just didn't have the > time to disassemble the bikes to take them to Rick's shop to be painted, so > it wasn't until this past Friday, a bit over a month after the forks were > delivered, that I was able to pick up the Hunqapillar fork. On Friday > afternoon I removed the Hunqapillar's stock fork, took both to my LBS to > have them swap the crown race from the stock fork to the new fork and > proceeded to install the new fork. I'm thinking of getting those tools to > do that myself, although it's such a low frequency job that I normally have > the mechanics at the LBS do it, but it's always a hassle. Anyway, that > night I finished the installation and put back the Pass & Stow front rack I > had before and decided to put the Swift Industries Pelican Porteur bag I > had ordered when I first ordered that rack. On the standard Hunqapillar > fork, I hated how the bike handled with the Pelican Porteur bag on the > rack; the empty Pass & Stow rack wasn't bad on the handling of the bike, > but loaded with the bag it was awful. It pulled so much on the bars, > especially when taking turns that while I could adapt to it, like I had > done on last year's S24O to Mt. Diablo, I just didn't like how it handled > and wanted to do a direct comparison. I didn't load it too much, just my > Fuji X100 camera and a sweater, but the bag itself is kind of heavy with > its dual canvas exterior/plastic interior and padding. It has the > extra-heavy black canvas that they offer as an additional option. I also > put inside a padded F-Stop insert which I discovered recently as a great > solution for carrying camera and lenses on the bike. > > On Saturday morning I did a 15 mile mixed terrain ride (though mostly on > twisty paved trails with lots of people running and walking around as well > to see how the bike would handle with the new fork and boy, was that a > revelation! The Hunqapillar's handling is, in my opinion, vastly improved. > I was afraid it was going to be squirmy or squirrely, but to my surprise, > none of the good traits were changed but all the less desirable ones are > gone. I don't know if I can verbally describe how it feels accurately, but > where before I had to "drive" the bike, especially around turns, now all I > have to do is think of where I want to go and the bike just responds > effortlessly. Turns are beautiful, whether at low or high speed, yet the > bike tracks perfectly and no longer wants to wander or pull on the > handlebars. The front load dissapeared while riding and I could zig-zag > around people so smoothly it was a pleasure. Riding on singletrack was > awesome. > > Needless to say, I'll have to do further testing with different types of > loads and racks, front and rear loads, rear only loads and no loads. This > morning I rode my bike/train commute with a bit more on the Pelican bag and > it was still very nice. Between the new low trail fork and the Bosco bars, > my Hunqapillar is now perfect for me. Perfect fit, perfect comfort, all the > hand positions I need, the handling I wanted. Next will be deciding what > color to paint it, although I'm leaning towards silver now. I cannot really > ride my bikes no-handed, but if anything, it would seem to me that with the > low trail fork, as expected, it's a bit more difficult for me to ride > no-handed. Further testing/practice needed to confirm. > > Here are the initial comparison photos on a side by side montage to > appreciate the suble differences between the stock high trail fork and the > new low trail fork, especially the rake. *http://tinyurl.com/7phz5kz* > The photo of the stock fork was taken during the original conversations > with Tom and I used my iPhone in my office. The photo of the new fork was > taken today with my X100 and its quality is better. Obviously the > perspective on both is not equal. I can add close-ups of the stock fork > next to the low trail fork if requested. > > René > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/pB1tNEywoFkJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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