Size Matters.  And not just in the bike.  My experience has been that the 
larger the shop the smaller the level of knowledge.  There are of course 
exceptions to this, e.g. Harris Cyclery.  But most often very large bike 
shops survive by hiring college age guys, usually steeped in racing, to 
push  a hi volume of Treks, Cannondales, Specialized, etc out the door. 
 One rainy Sunday afternoon I browsed through a large local bike shop and 
watched a middle age women tell a very young sales clerk she wanted a bike 
to ride on "paths".  He steered her to a full suspension mt. bike! 
 Yesterday the latest issue of Buycycle magazine arrived (uninvited) into 
my home.  The cover headline was "Have More Fun" and pictured a man riding 
in shorts and a polo shirt,  but the bike had 16 spoke radial wheels, road 
pedals, and bars about 6" below the seat.  It didn't look like fun; it 
looked silly.

Moral of the story - Newbies shouldn't buy solo.

Michael

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 5:02:48 AM UTC-4, IanA wrote:
>
> My friend was in the market for a new bicycle with a budget of around 
> $800.00.  He'd looked at various aluminum mountain bikes and talked to me 
> about it - he'd mentioned that he'd possibly like a single speed.  I 
> suggested he check out the Surly line of bikes and maybe push his budget a 
> little and get something he'd really enjoy.  Being a Rivendell owner 
> (recent acquisition) and having followed this list and GP's writings for 
> the last few years, I have certain ideas about bicycle fit.  Not being a 
> crotch-worrier, I like to start with the largest straddle-able frame and 
> work from there.  A fist-full of seat post, bars around saddle height etc. 
>  Using this formula as a starting basis, I urged my friend to try a 62cm 
> Crosscheck (a single speed).  He loved it.  The store was adamant that a 
> 58cm was he needed, with the saddle jacked up a good two fist-fulls and the 
> bars well below the saddle height, because "that's where the power is".  My 
> friend test rode the 58, the 60 and then the 62cm and there was no way he 
> was going back.  The steerer tubes on all sizes had been cut quite low, but 
> on the 62cm, the set-up worked perfectly for my friend. The mechanic was 
> not happy about this and I was the unwelcome "expert-friend", even though 
> they made the sale and my friend rode out the store on his new bike.  The 
> one he wanted.
>
> I suppose we all get locked into ideas and philosophies, but without my 
> input (as right or wrong as it may be), they would have sized him by 
> putting the saddle height above his hip bone and made the bars a few inches 
> below saddle height.  This was their fitting method.  At the end of the 
> day, my friend is delighted - he exceeded his budget by $175 and got a very 
> pretty bicycle that has clearance for 700 x 45 with fenders. Even with my 
> pretty LL there, I was jealous of his purchase.  The shop had never heard 
> of Rivendell, which made me wonder just how small a corner of the bike 
> world I must live in, hanging out here on the RBW list.
>
>
>

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