Thanks, again, Bob. I am totally on the same page with you (excuse the pun).
-- Matthew Wise Music Cataloger and Cataloging Policy, Documentation, and Training Librarian Knowledge Access and Resource Management Services (KARMS) Division of Libraries, New York University 20 Cooper Square, Room 313, New York, NY 10003-7112 Phone: 212.998.2485 matthew.w...@nyu.edu On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Robert Maxwell <robert_maxw...@byu.edu>wrote: > Matthew,**** > > ** ** > > You are correct that “some color illustrations” and “illustrations (some > color)” mean different things, as do “chiefly color illustrations” and > “illustrations (chiefly color)”. In RDA “some color” is a separate element > from “illustrations” so if we were just recording elements in a cataloging > form such as this it would be unambiguous:**** > > ** ** > > Illustrative content: illustrations**** > > Color content: some color**** > > ** ** > > I suppose with the second example we could be more nuanced than we > currently are able to be if we wanted:**** > > ** ** > > Either**** > > ** ** > > Illustrative content: illustrations**** > > Color content: chiefly color**** > > ** ** > > or**** > > ** ** > > Illustrative content: chiefly illustrations [I **think** this is still > allowed, though now that I look at it I don’t see it in 7.15, but let’s > assume that it is]**** > > Color content: chiefly color [i.e. mostly color but some b & w]**** > > ** ** > > or**** > > ** ** > > Illustrative content: chiefly illustrations**** > > Color content: color [i.e. color, no b & w]**** > > ** ** > > But since we’re trying to pour this into MARC we need to do our best to > clarify it and so in these situations we’re following AACR2 practice > putting the color content element in parentheses following the illustrative > content element. True, this is inconsistent with recording “color > illustrations” rather than “illustrations (color)”. It is my understanding > that we’re just going to follow AACR2 practice for these elements, although > I’m not aware of any official documentation to that effect (I suspect it’s > in training materials, but not, for example, in PCC-LC PS that I know of). > The trouble with this, of course, is that you have to understand AACR2 in > order to apply RDA, which is fine for the current cataloging community but > isn’t fine for new catalogers learning RDA without first learning AACR2.** > ** > > ** ** > > Bob**** > > ** ** > > Robert L. Maxwell**** > > Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian**** > > Genre/Form Authorities Librarian**** > > 6728 Harold B. Lee Library**** > > Brigham Young University**** > > Provo, UT 84602**** > > (801)422-5568 **** > > ** ** > > "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves > to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Matthew Wise > *Sent:* Monday, October 15, 2012 12:18 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] "coloured illustrations"**** > > ** ** > > Hi, again, Bob. > > So then, is it also > > $b some color illustrations or $b illustrations (some color) > > and > > $b chiefly color illustrations or $b illustrations (chiefly > color) ... ? > > In the first example, the statement on the left, as a user, I would read > this grammatically to mean that there were only a few illustrations in the > book (which happened to be in color), as opposed to illustrations, some of > which are in color. > > And in the second example, the statement on the left, I would read this as > most of the pages (mentioned in $a) are color illustrations, as opposed to > most of the illustrations are in color. > > What is current practice? And is there recognition that, either way, this > is ambiguous? > > Matthew**** > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Robert Maxwell <robert_maxw...@byu.edu> > wrote:**** > > Matthew, **** > > **** > > You’re right, RDA doesn’t specify, because it considers these two separate > elements and I imagine RDA would be fine with either of your formulations. > The current practice is:**** > > **** > > $b color illustrations **** > > **** > > (or $b color illustration if there’s just one).**** > > **** > > By the way, not “colored illustrations”—that is taken to mean colored > after publication, e.g., hand colored. I realize there are a couple of > places in RDA examples that use “coloured” but I understood these were > mistakes and would be corrected.**** > > **** > > Because there’s more than one possible way in RDA to do this, I think it > would be a good idea for something like an LC-PCC PS at 7.17.1.3 showing > the preferred method (if we as a community in fact do care that everyone do > it consistently). The only thing at LC-PCC PS 7.17.1.3 is the fact that LC > wants its catalogers to spell the word “color”, not the form of the element > in combination with words such as “illustrations” or “maps”. **** > > **** > > Bob**** > > **** > > Robert L. Maxwell**** > > Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian**** > > Genre/Form Authorities Librarian**** > > 6728 Harold B. Lee Library**** > > Brigham Young University**** > > Provo, UT 84602**** > > (801)422-5568 **** > > **** > > "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves > to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.**** > > **** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Matthew Wise > *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2012 2:26 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* [RDA-L] "coloured illustrations"**** > > **** > > Greetings, > > As a new user of the RDA Toolkit, I have a stupid question. How do I > encode in a MARC record that a book has, as AACR2 calls them, "coloured > illustrations," i.e., "col. ill.?" > > Instruction 7.15.1.3 tells me to record "illustrations." Instruction > 7.17.1.3 tells me to record "colour." And the related LC-PCC PS tells me > to change that to "color." However, how does one record this in the MARC > 300 subfield b? > > "color illustrations" or "illustrations (color)" > > The latter would parallel what I would likely do for "illustrations (some > color)" and "illustrations (chiefly color)," although all seem to be > incorrect grammatically. > > Unfortunately, the JSC has not included this in the MARC-encoded example > records. But I'm sure that I'm not the first to encounter this situation. > > -- > Matthew Wise > Music Cataloger and Cataloging Policy, Documentation, and Training > Librarian > Knowledge Access and Resource Management Services (KARMS) > Division of Libraries, New York University > 20 Cooper Square, Room 313, New York, NY 10003-7112 > Phone: 212.998.2485 matthew.w...@nyu.edu**** > > > > > -- > Matthew Wise > Music Cataloger and Cataloging Policy, Documentation, and Training > Librarian > Knowledge Access and Resource Management Services (KARMS) > Division of Libraries, New York University > 20 Cooper Square, Room 313, New York, NY 10003-7112 > Phone: 212.998.2485 matthew.w...@nyu.edu >
