Adam, thanks a lot. Joan
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Adam L. Schiff <asch...@u.washington.edu>wrote: > Joan, > > Yes this is basically what I understand to be correct. However, there > does NOT seem to be a way in RDA to say "chiefly illustrations", so I think > that would have to be conveyed in a note. I covered this in my > presentation on the changes from RDA: > > Slide 76 at http://faculty.washington.edu/**aschiff/UW2012Presentation-** > Part1-Notes.pdf<http://faculty.washington.edu/aschiff/UW2012Presentation-Part1-Notes.pdf> > > AACR2 > > 300 $a ca. 200 p. : $b chiefly ill. (some col.) ; $c 32 cm > > RDA > > 300 $a approximately 200 pages : $b illustrations (some color) ; $c 32 cm > 500 $a Chiefly illustrations. > > --Adam > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^**^^^^^^^^ > Adam L. Schiff > Principal Cataloger > University of Washington Libraries > Box 352900 > Seattle, WA 98195-2900 > (206) 543-8409 > (206) 685-8782 fax > asch...@u.washington.edu > http://faculty.washington.edu/**~aschiff<http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~**~~~~~~~~ > > > On Tue, 16 Oct 2012, Joan Wang wrote: > > >> Hi, >> >> I found the following illustrative matter examples in AACR2 and OCLC >> Bibliographic Formats and Standards. >> >> * chiefly maps >> * ill. (chiefly col.) >> * ill. (some col.) >> * some ill. (some col.) >> * ill., ports. (some col.) >> >> Based on these examples, ?chiefly maps? means that the content is mainly >> composed of maps; ?maps (chiefly col.)? means that >> most of maps in the content are colorful. Can we use ?chiefly col. maps? >> to describe the content mainly composed of >> >> color maps? >> >> >> In RDA, they are separated into two sections: illustrative content (7.15) >> and colour content (7.17). Examples shown >> in 7.15 include specific illustrations like charts or coats of arms. >> Section 7.17.1.3 (LC PCC PS) includes examples >> like colour, some color, and chiefly colour. >> >> >> >> I assume if we want to combine 7.15 and 7.17, we still follow AACR2 >> practice to describe the above two situations. >> Is my understanding correct? >> >> >> >> I know that I am a kind of repeating Robert?s words. But would be very >> happy if somebody would like to confirm it. >> >> >> >> Thanks for the help in advance. >> >> Joan Wang >> Illinois Heartland Library System >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Matthew Wise <matthew.w...@nyu.edu> >> wrote: >> Thanks, again, Bob. >> >> I am totally on the same page with you (excuse the pun). >> >> -- >> Matthew Wise >> Music Cataloger and Cataloging Policy, Documentation, and Training >> Librarian >> Knowledge Access and Resource Management Services (KARMS) >> Division of Libraries, New York University >> 20 Cooper Square, Room 313, New York, NY 10003-7112 >> Phone: 212.998.2485 matthew.w...@nyu.edu >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Robert Maxwell <robert_maxw...@byu.edu> >> wrote: >> >> Matthew, >> >> >> >> You are correct that ?some color illustrations? and ?illustrations >> (some color)? mean different things, as >> do ?chiefly color illustrations? and ?illustrations (chiefly >> color)?. In RDA ?some color? is a separate >> element from ?illustrations? so if we were just recording elements >> in a cataloging form such as this >> >> it would be unambiguous: >> >> >> >> Illustrative content: illustrations >> >> Color content: some color >> >> >> >> I suppose with the second example we could be more nuanced than we >> currently are able to be if we >> wanted: >> >> >> >> Either >> >> >> >> Illustrative content: illustrations >> >> Color content: chiefly color >> >> >> >> or >> >> >> >> Illustrative content: chiefly illustrations [I *think* this is >> still allowed, though now that I >> look at it I don?t see it in 7.15, but let?s assume that it is] >> >> >> Color content: chiefly color [i.e. mostly color but some b & w] >> >> >> >> or >> >> >> >> Illustrative content: chiefly illustrations >> >> Color content: color [i.e. color, no b & w] >> >> >> >> But since we?re trying to pour this into MARC we need to do our >> best to clarify it and so in these >> situations we?re following AACR2 practice putting the color content >> element in parentheses following >> the illustrative content element. True, this is inconsistent with >> recording ?color illustrations? >> rather than ?illustrations (color)?. It is my understanding that >> we?re just going to follow AACR2 >> practice for these elements, although I?m not aware of any official >> documentation to that effect (I >> suspect it?s in training materials, but not, for example, in PCC-LC >> PS that I know of). The trouble >> >> with this, of course, is that you have to understand AACR2 in order >> to apply RDA, which is fine >> for the current cataloging community but isn?t fine for new >> catalogers learning RDA without first >> >> learning AACR2. >> >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> Robert L. Maxwell >> >> Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian >> >> Genre/Form Authorities Librarian >> >> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library >> >> Brigham Young University >> >> Provo, UT 84602 >> >> (801)422-5568 >> >> >> >> "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine >> ourselves to the course which has >> been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842. >> >> >> >> From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access >> [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-**BAC.GC.CA <RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] >> On Behalf Of Matthew Wise >> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 12:18 PM >> To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> Subject: Re: [RDA-L] "coloured illustrations" >> >> >> >> Hi, again, Bob. >> >> So then, is it also >> >> $b some color illustrations or $b illustrations (some color) >> >> and >> >> $b chiefly color illustrations or $b illustrations (chiefly >> color) ... ? >> >> In the first example, the statement on the left, as a user, I would read >> this grammatically to mean that >> there were only a few illustrations in the book (which happened to be in >> color), as opposed to >> illustrations, some of which are in color. >> >> And in the second example, the statement on the left, I would read this >> as most of the pages (mentioned >> in $a) are color illustrations, as opposed to most of the illustrations >> are in color. >> >> What is current practice? And is there recognition that, either way, >> this is ambiguous? >> >> Matthew >> >> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Robert Maxwell <robert_maxw...@byu.edu> >> wrote: >> >> Matthew, >> >> >> >> You?re right, RDA doesn?t specify, because it considers these two >> separate elements and I imagine RDA would >> >> be fine with either of your formulations. The current practice is: >> >> >> >> $b color illustrations >> >> >> >> (or $b color illustration if there?s just one). >> >> >> >> By the way, not ?colored illustrations??that is taken to mean colored >> after publication, e.g., hand colored. I >> realize there are a couple of places in RDA examples that use ?coloured? >> but I understood these were >> >> mistakes and would be corrected. >> >> >> >> Because there?s more than one possible way in RDA to do this, I think it >> would be a good idea for >> >> something like an LC-PCC PS at 7.17.1.3 showing the preferred method (if >> we as a community in fact do >> care that everyone do it consistently). The only thing at LC-PCC PS >> 7.17.1.3 is the fact that LC wants >> its catalogers to spell the word ?color?, not the form of the element in >> combination with words such as >> ?illustrations? or ?maps?. >> >> >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> Robert L. Maxwell >> >> Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian >> >> Genre/Form Authorities Librarian >> >> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library >> >> Brigham Young University >> >> Provo, UT 84602 >> >> (801)422-5568 >> >> >> >> "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine >> ourselves to the course which has been >> heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842. >> >> >> >> From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access >> [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-**BAC.GC.CA <RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] >> On Behalf Of Matthew Wise >> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 2:26 PM >> To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >> Subject: [RDA-L] "coloured illustrations" >> >> >> >> Greetings, >> >> As a new user of the RDA Toolkit, I have a stupid question. How do I >> encode in a MARC record that a >> book has, as AACR2 calls them, "coloured illustrations," i.e., "col. >> ill.?" >> >> Instruction 7.15.1.3 tells me to record "illustrations." Instruction >> 7.17.1.3 tells me to record >> "colour." And the related LC-PCC PS tells me to change that to "color." >> However, how does one record >> this in the MARC 300 subfield b? >> >> "color illustrations" or "illustrations (color)" >> >> The latter would parallel what I would likely do for "illustrations (some >> color)" and "illustrations >> (chiefly color)," although all seem to be incorrect grammatically. >> >> Unfortunately, the JSC has not included this in the MARC-encoded example >> records. But I'm sure that I'm >> not the first to encounter this situation. >> >> -- >> Matthew Wise >> Music Cataloger and Cataloging Policy, Documentation, and Training >> Librarian >> Knowledge Access and Resource Management Services (KARMS) >> Division of Libraries, New York University >> 20 Cooper Square, Room 313, New York, NY 10003-7112 >> Phone: 212.998.2485 matthew.w...@nyu.edu >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matthew Wise >> Music Cataloger and Cataloging Policy, Documentation, and Training >> Librarian >> Knowledge Access and Resource Management Services (KARMS) >> Division of Libraries, New York University >> 20 Cooper Square, Room 313, New York, NY 10003-7112 >> Phone: 212.998.2485 matthew.w...@nyu.edu >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Joan Wang >> Cataloger -- CMC >> Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) >> 6725 Goshen Road >> Edwardsville, IL 62025 >> 618.656.3216x409 >> 618.656.9401Fax >> >> >> -- Joan Wang Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
