I'm afraid Mr. Davey's assessment is much closer to present reality than Dr. Tillett's.
Michael Mitchell Technical Services Librarian Brazosport College Lake Jackson, TX Michael.mitchell at brazosport.edu From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of JSC Chair Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 8:53 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] ] The "A" in RDA RDA is about describing bibliographic resources and their relationships and enabling access to those resources to meet our users needs. It is intended to be used as an online tool that can be consulted as needed once a cataloger has learned the basics. That is not different from earlier cataloging codes. What is different, is that now we can access those instructions online and we can build on the expertise of thousands of people to help improve those instructions and vocabularies to offer even better descriptions and access to those resources for our users -- now. - Brabara Tillett JSC Chair On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Ford Davey <ford_da...@hotmail.com<mailto:ford_da...@hotmail.com>> wrote: I don't mean to be offensive; not to demean the hard work that has gone into (and the ongoing work) making RDA .... But, RDA is a nonsense! It's about cataloguing the sake of cataloguing! I has nothing to do with access, or the user! Looking at this forum, and a couple of others; the discussion by "cataloguers" - and I recognize "names" who I would consider have experience of, and know their cataloguing seems to me to suggest that nobody really seems to know what they're on about! That disturbs me, a lot! I would like to know how those of you who can "explain" to the rest of what the 33x fields are all about (and to be honest those explanations are far too wordy for me to follow!) .... How do you explain them to your users, you know the folks who actually want to find stuff! Who don't want, or have the time to read through the equivalent of a 1,000 page manual (that at times looks as if t was put together by Lewis Carroll and a bunch of lawyer!); just in case there has been any changes since they last looked at it?? It'll be OK when at some undetermined point in time (how long did RDA take?), some undetermined solution is put in place? Sorry to rant. From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA<mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] On Behalf Of James Weinheimer Sent: 27 July 2013 14:59 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA<mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA> Subject: Re: [RDA-L] ] The "A" in RDA On 26/07/2013 22:10, JSC Chair wrote: <snip> Taking the bigger view is precisely what RDA will help us do - stop focusing on creating "records" and see how the resources we are describing fit into the bibliographic universe. We are living with lots of MARC limitations for now, but the data built using RDA will be especially useful when we can move beyond MARC. It is still usable in MARC just as "records" created with AAACR2 were useful in MARC, and RDA can even be used to create catalog card records, if that is your limited environment for now, but we want to look beyond the current limitations of just building a catalog to re-use of bibliographic data in the broader information community - to enable libraries to interact better in that larger realm where our users are - to connect users to the rich resources and related resources we have to offer and beyond. - Barbara Tillett JSC Chair </snip> The idea that the problem is with "records" and that things will get better once they are discombobulated into various bits of data is a theory that has never been demonstrated. It also goes against reason: why should a separate bit of information such as <Paging>300</Paging> or <Title>Poems</Title> make such a big difference? On their own, these little bits and pieces of information are completely meaningless and they must be brought together again--or "recombobulated"--if anything is to make sense. (http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/Ao1Tpjx5r0ZFwHDZHb49Pg/l.jpg. This area apparently really exists at the airport in Milwaukee. I love it!) The fact is: catalogs currently do not have "records" as such, because in any catalog based on an RDBMS, everything is already discombobulated into separate tables for headings, language codes, perhaps dates and all sorts of things. Internally, each catalog may separate the information in different ways. Anyway, there is *nothing at all new* about getting rid of the "record"--it's been the case for decades. When a searcher of the catalog sees a record, these bits and pieces are brought together, and the human experiences the same thing as a "record", although it can be displayed completely, partially, or it could be in many, many unique and novel ways. I think the argument has confused database structure with data transfer. For instance, I can't imagine anybody wanting just the <Paging> information or the <SubjectChronologicalSubdivision> without a lot of the rest of the record so that the final product will be coherent and useful. And internal database structure will continue to vary as tremendously as it does now no matter what library formats become. In my opinion, these are side issues and the fundamental question is: *if* there arrives the FRBR universe that is fragmented into little bits of atoms based on works/expressions/manifestations/items, I wonder who will own what? We have already had serious issues of who owns which records, so if there are work "instances", or as BIBFRAME seems to be leaning toward "work-expression instances", I wonder who will own those work-expression instances? Without that information (in essence the headings but other info as well, such as language and maybe dates, etc.) the manifestation records lose the majority of their value. Will those work-expression instances be placed into the public domain? If not, it would be like within the internal structures of your own library's catalog, you suddenly didn't own the information in your subject tables or the personal names in your names tables. Or will "work-expression instances" be owned by some agency? And if they are owned, who will they be and how much will they charge? I think that's a pretty important issue to settle. -- James Weinheimer weinheimer.ji...@gmail.com<mailto:weinheimer.ji...@gmail.com> First Thus http://catalogingmatters.blogspot.com/ First Thus Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/FirstThus Cooperative Cataloging Rules http://sites.google.com/site/opencatalogingrules/ Cataloging Matters Podcasts http://blog.jweinheimer.net/p/cataloging-matters-podcasts.html -- Dr. Barbara B. Tillett, Ph.D. Chair, Joint Steering Committee for Development of RDA
