Once you determine the real pump requirements (as others have mentioned, this is critical - IME particularly if the "well guy" sized and sold the pump) and if a larger than SQflex pump is needed, I have had good luck using VFDs to drive three-phase pumps with single phase power. You can pay Franklin the big $$ for their system, but a commodity VFD from someone like Automation Direct will set you back about $100/HP and (up to 3 HP) will accept single phase input power. This gets you sophisticated motor protection, programmable ramp soft starts, restart delays, and a plethora of input and output terminals for shutdown switches, PID sensor inputs, etc. and will allow you to create all manner of interesting system behavior. Most also include a (software programmable) runtime limitation or alarm which can prevent scenarios like Chris described below. 3-phase motors are more efficient anyway so I seriously doubt we will sell a traditional single phase pump or fan again.
On Jun 19, 2010, at 22:37 , frenergy wrote: > Ray, > > Yes, thus my qualification:"seems to be pretty bombproof". > > Also though, a deatil I left out which would have a major longevity > impact on this tank shut-off/on set-up is that the pump supplying water to > the tank only comes on once a day (ala digital timer), thus the tank valve, > seal, float, rod, etc. are only cycled once/day. The daily water consumption > draw down is only about 15% of tank capacity, so we chose to pump water once > a day. I guess this scenario also acts as a safety for an event like the one > you described, months of pumping for naught do to failed float shaft. > > > Bill > Feather River Solar Electric > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530-284-7849/6544 fax > ----- Original Message ----- > From: R Ray Walters > To: RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 8:10 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] two VFX3524's and a Franklin 3hp sub pump > > Float valves too have been problematic. Seals wear and leak after several > years, and just a couple of months ago, we had the brass shaft that connects > the float to the valve break off. In this case the tank had an over flow that > went into the septic. So nothing was damaged by the over filling, but no one > knew that was happening either. We were called to troubleshoot a grid tie > system that wasn't running the meter backwards, then the well pump guy came > out, and then finally the plumber who had done the tank system. By then, the > pump had run 24/7 at 10 gpm for a couple of months of fresh clean well water > straight into the septic. Our customer's electric bill was in the hundreds of > dollars. > I wouldn't quite say they're bomb proof. > > R. Walters > [email protected] > Solar Engineer > > > > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, frenergy wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> I've seen a bladder tank modulate the "shut-down" process in a >> up-the-hill gravity feed tank when using a (IMO) more reliable float valve >> rather than a float switch. Watts model number 1250 is an example of a >> toilet tank method of stopping/starting flow to a tank. With the bladder >> tank and a standard issue Sq D. pressure switch (in the vicinity of the >> wellhead) it seems to be a pretty bomb -proof set-up. >> >> Bill Battagin >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530-284-7849/6544 fax >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Chris Worcester >> To: [email protected] ; 'RE-wrenches' >> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] two VFX3524's and a Franklin 3hp sub pump >> >> Great ideas on load management to save the DC/AC system sizing. I haven’t >> spent time researching their need for this 3hp pump or age and all, but >> definitely worth looking at that side. Since it does pump to the 3000g >> gravity feed tank up the hill. What’s strange is there is still a bladder >> tank in the garage, possibly decommissioned when they added the gravity >> system. >> Sincerely, >> >> Chris Worcester >> Solar Wind Works >> NABCEP Certified PV Installer >> Phone: 530-582-4503 >> Fax: 530-582-4603 >> www.solarwindworks.com >> [email protected] >> "Proven Energy Solutions" >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Allan >> Sindelar >> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:48 PM >> To: [email protected]; RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] two VFX3524's and a Franklin 3hp sub pump >> Chris, >> We deal with deep wells routinely. >> >> Recently we installed a GTWB system for a very enjoyable retired couple. >> Their needs included the goat milker, sheep barn, two freezers and a fridge, >> and irrigation well pump, with the system sized for continuous operation in >> the event of a long-term (i.e. permanent) loss of the grid. This was on one >> acre in the suburbs south of Albuquerque. We used an XW4548, as it was the >> only battery-based, 120/240, single-inverter, grid-tie unit available >> currently. >> >> As part of the normal load-reduction process, we determined that the 2hp >> conventional well pump could be replaced with a 1hp soft-start SQ and have >> adequate head and flow for their sprinklers. Changing out the pump way more >> than paid for itself in the amount of inverter capacity we didn't need. >> >> I would encourage you to look at both of these related issues carefully as >> part of this situation: could a smaller pump meet the head and flow >> requirements of this site, and is a soft-start pump available? Usually, if >> an inverter or stack of them can't handle a big inductive load like a >> conventional pump, it's because of the starting surge. I suspect a smaller >> soft-start pump may be doable in your situation. >> Allan >> >> Allan Sindelar >> [email protected] >> NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer >> EE98J Journeyman Electrician >> Positive Energy, Inc. >> 3201 Calle Marie >> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 >> 505 424-1112 >> www.positiveenergysolar.com >> >> Hello offgrid Wrenches, >> I just inherited an off grid system with one VFX3524 inverter running the >> home loads, and a 17kW Guardian Generac they use for charging (through an >> X-240 back into the inverter) & to run their Franklin 3hp 240 VAC well pump, >> S. F. max amp 17.0 ( rated on its controller) >> This is a really convoluted system as they have another 120/240 VAC >> Transformer to have the inverter talk to the 240 volt signal the gen set >> needs to see. Yikes. >> So I am proposing to add a second inverter if it can run the well pump and >> eliminate the extra transformer. This will also reduce gen set run time in >> half while battery charging, a big plus with the nice 24V Hawker battery >> bank, 1020 AH at the 6 hour rate. >> There aren’t any other unusual large AC loads in the home, just the fridge, >> washer, computer, and such. LPG for cooking, water heating, clothes dryer. >> Thanks in advance for all ideas here! >> Sincerely, >> >> Chris Worcester >> Solar Wind Works >> NABCEP Certified PV Installer >> Phone: 530-582-4503 >> Fax: 530-582-4603 >> www.solarwindworks.com >> [email protected] >> "Proven Energy Solutions"
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