I used an Ecogen recently, and I liked many aspects of it. However the
continuous draw of the on board electronics is just ridiculous for an
off grid generator.
A 15 w solar module charging the start battery was barely able to keep
up with the draw. Running AC off the inverter to the generator is also
just another unnecessary 24/7 phantom load.
We may be 20 years into the future, but no one has built a generator
that can hold a candle to the old water cooled, 1800 RPM Kohlers. Most
of those are still in service, and had simple 2 wire start. The Ecogen's
onboard computer is a serious design flaw IMO. We don't need the
generator to "think" in an off grid system; we already have inverters
that do a much better job of that. The generator just needs to start
reliably when its called upon.
I would appreciate if someone with more experience with the Ecogens
could explain why the on board electronics are good, or...... how to
bypass them completely.
We had a great off grid generator solution 2 decades ago, and the closer
today's manufacturers can get back to that, the better we and our
customers will all be.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 4/9/2015 2:40 PM, Gary Willett wrote:
Dana:
Take a look at the new Generac EcoGen 15kW that was purpose built for
a renewable energy system*
/* including an inverter, battery bank and alternative energy power
source/
http://gens.lccdn.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/home-generators/ecogen-series/15kw-6103/0k8466-c-15kw-ecogen-hsb.pdf
The 15kW EcoGen has the same footprint as the 6kW EcoGen (LP only) and
is natural gas or LP gas capable. The generator has a constant
frequency / variable speed AVR based on electrical demand.
Also, 500 run hours between oil changes. And a 3-year or 2000 hour
warranty.
http://gens.lccdn.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/home-generators/ecogen-series/ecogen-warranty-0j1629-revb.pdf
Regards,
Gary Willett
Icarus Engineering & Solar Services LLC
On 4/9/15 9:56 AM, Dana wrote:
I agree but full load charging usually only lasts but a few minutes
as the inverter charge rate drops readily as voltage rises. 8300 watt
-10,000 watts or 13000 watts the point is why we are installing air
cooled throw away generators that run so fast & hot that they need to
be replaced in 2,000 hours, not to mention the fuel consumed at 80 MPH?
Is there a slow speed (1200-1800 rpm) water cooled 8-13 KW generator
out there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Orzel
Great Solar Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136
E - [email protected] - Web - solarwork.com
O - 970.626.5253 C - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
*P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
*From:*Jerry Shafer [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 7:02 PM
*To:* [email protected]; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Question on Back up generators
We don't install anything smaller then a 13 k its air cooled but
works well, as far as the numbers you have, Mine are somewhat
different I use max potential load and max potential charge as when
the batteries are low the genny must not only supply the home but
also charge the bank back up at a reasonable rate, so if the loads
are high and the genny only has enough to maintain that load then
what about the batteries plus I only use 75% of the genny rating for
optimum or improved duty cycle. This is only me and I am sure every
shop has there own math.
Jerry
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Dana <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hey All –
I just got off of a phone call with my Onan generator supplier. Last
conversation with Kohler was the same story basically.
I was informed that their smallest water cooled generator, the RS22
(22 KW) is now no longer “rated “for off grid. They actually called
me to confirm that this generator was for backup power to a utility
inter connected house. Tier 4 generators in the EPA CFR 40 is the
Federal code what covers this, & you are allowed 100 hours of run
time for standby power and maintenance per year.
Q - Why am I using ridiculous sized generators for something that an
82-8300 watt generator does just fine?
A - The EPA current requirements, a shrinking economy, &
manufacturers that have to meet very expensive air quality compliance.
The Penalty - If you get caught running a “standby power only”
generator the fine is now $39,000 per day!
Now I am far from a polluting kind of individual and all for air
quality but this is getting the best of us. The 13KW air cooled
generators are only good for 2000 hours, & the water cooled go 20
years of moderate usage but cost a boat load. I hate having the
“Generator” talk with a new client they look at me like I am crazy.
So the air cooled units are basically throwaways and the 22KW units
are way more than we need and what a client needs to spend money on,
unless you are at 10,000 ft el.
If you figure 30 amps/120 VAC input per inverter +/- x 2 = 7.2KW plus
say 10-15% fudge or elevation factors would require an 8200-8300 watt
generator. Air cooled at 3600 RPM = 80 MPH & 1800 RPM = 40 MPH. Even
if the generator were a bit smaller, ran slow (1200-1800 rpm) and ran
a bit longer that would be acceptable.
So, why are we installing even 13KW air cooled or 22 KW water generators?
There is a business opportunity here folks.
What are you all installing?
Why?
Is it reliable?
Would you use it on your house?
Thanks for sharing all the wisdom and knowledge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Dana Orzel*
_Great Solar Works, Inc - *NABCEP # 051112-136*_
*E*- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> - *Web* -
solarwork.com <http://solarwork.com>
*O*- 970.626.5253 <tel:970.626.5253> *C *- 208.721.7003
<tel:208.721.7003> - No FAX Line
*_"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _*
*P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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