All; I forgot to note that with the AGMs a full equalization that could temporarily stave off problems across the massively paralleled small-capacity batteries is not possible.
I would probably spend a couple hours, no more, load testing it while watching on a thermal imager. I don't have the luxury of a Fluke battery tester. I would show the customer why it was designed incorrectly, show the test results and FLIR photos, and walk away. I would never take on the job of battery replacement in this situation....you will be the loser who "wrecked his system." On Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 05:00 Ray <r...@solarray.com wrote: > Regardless of the Amazing Batcap 30 yr claims debunked by Dan, a system > wired in the manner described (5 batteries in parallel, then series > connecting the sets of 5 for 48 v) is just not going to charge and > discharge evenly. Its violated the no more than 4 parallel strings rule, > so I'm surprised it lasted even 5 years. My guess is that some of the > batteries are toast and some may have a bit of life in them, since they > were so grossly imbalanced, so a neighbor might be able to use a few of the > best ones for a couple more years. Ultimately the rule in off grid solar is > "Batteries are the Weakest Link". The customer is not going to have a > decent experience until they replace that mess with a properly sized and > wired battery bank from a reputable manufacturer. > > I won't take on new clients if we can't get the system up to snuff. I > don't need those oh so predictable calls that the power is off again. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 11/21/18 1:06 AM, Dan Fink wrote: > > Hello All; I would question the client about the origin of this battery > bank. New, used, how long in storage and in service, etc. If he bought > these new, that's a very expensive battery bank! > > Usually when I've run into banks of massively parallel, low amp-hour > sealed lead acid batteries, the origin was "a great surplus deal on a whole > bunch of batteries from wheelchairs/UPS units/manufacturer overrun etc." > > My BS meter on the manufacturer Batcap was triggered by a few things.... > > -The company is focused on selling audiophiles xxxscratch thatxxx punks > with car stereos so loud they set off car alarms 6 spots down. They need > lots of amps right now to thump that bass. > > - The company name Batcap targets the capacitor boost market for this > application, but actually a dedicated battery is a great idea, as it would > recharge quickly from the (often up-sized) car alternator. But some folks > seem to think the name implies there's a capacitor involved. There isn't. > Sneaky language in the company name. > > - Sealed, low internal resistance, 100-125 amp-hours. Sounds like a stock > AGM to me, compared to a VRSLA. > > - Spec sheet contains grammatical errors that indicate the writer does not > speak English as a first language. > > - "Solar" seems to have been added to the website and battery label > stickers as an afterthought....and 30 years cycle life in a solar > application? Has Batcap been around for 30 years? Sounds like somebody > importing Asian AGMs and sticking them with new stickers. > > DAN FINK > Buckville Energy Consulting, Box Prairie CO 970-672-4342 > > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 23:28 Mick Abraham <m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: > >> Hello, Drake & All~ >> >> Drake described his service dilemma about batteries bought elsewhere & >> whether to correct the original hinky pack wiring (copied below). My reply >> below may seem cynical & I may seem too eager to declare the existing >> battery as: "Failed". Call me jaded. >> >> Mick's $0.02 is: If there's no amp-hour monitor in the system, I suggest >> you first try to persuade the homeowner to buy a metering shunt & a modest >> amp-hour meter such as the Tri-Metric--which could be used to measure & >> display the battery bank's amp-hour capacity. If the client won't approve >> that expenditure (& hourly labor for explanations), the service tech is >> hamstrung. Nobody can measure the health of a battery bank by just looking >> at it or talking about it...and clients sometimes receive the inevitable >> "battery bad news" if they are shown the diminished capacity on a digital >> display after an equitably managed "pump & dump". >> >> Your thought, Drake, of holding back on any re-wiring of the battery >> pack...seems prudent...until the first set of amp-hour measurements are >> recorded as a baseline. From there...a common pattern is a series of >> attempted remediation efforts--all for pay, of course--until the homeowner >> acknowledges that it's time to start afresh. >> >> Oops, I left out an important step: getting a read on whether the client >> has the money for new batteries or not. I'm personally terrible at getting >> that reconnaissance done early enough. If the client isn't materially >> blessed to be able to get new batteries, they might be better off spending >> limited funds on fuel for the engine generator instead of on battery >> testing & tutorials. >> >> The Wrench List is the Bomb~ >> >> Mick Abraham, Proprietor >> www.abrahamsolar.com >> >> Landline: 970-731-4675 >> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 >> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Drake <drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> >>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> Cc: >>> Bcc: >>> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:41:17 -0500 >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM >>> Hello Wrenches, >>> >>> An owner of an existing system has a bank of twenty, 100 AH, 12 V Deep >>> cycle batteries of the Batcap >>> <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html> >>> <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html>brand. >>> >>> The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries in parallel to produce *500 >>> AH battery sets at 12 V.* These four parallel sets are then wired in >>> series to give a 48 V nominal bank. >>> >>> The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15 volts. The bank is about >>> 5 years old. The CEO of Batcap told the system owner that these batteries >>> have lasted up to 30 years in solar applications, so he has high >>> expectations for these batteries being around for a while. >>> >>> My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a normal series - parallel >>> configuration. But there are too many strings to do this without a bus bar. >>> Besides, the batteries are likely damaged, and rewiring them might cause >>> the bank to exhibit unsuspected problems. How much money is worth putting >>> into this bank? $0? >>> >>> The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely hired the wrong >>> installer. He could use some help. What would you do in this situation? >>> Rewire the bank, leave it well enough alone or run for the hills. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Drake >>> >>> Drake Chamberlin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified >>> Solar PV 740-448-7328 *http://athens-electric.com/ >>> >>> ᐧ >> ᐧ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & > settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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